questionsis the shrunken rip deals acceptable to everyone?

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I don't see any RIPs now. Hooray!

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I'm confused. I just looked at the popular page, and the page after it, and I saw zero RIP deals. I don't see shrunken, I see an absence thereof. Is that what you meant, or did you see something different? Perhaps a transitory page, before they changed it to what it is now?

[Edit: Now I see them. Those are some teeny tiny things. Very cool. Congrats to @shawnmiller, @josefresno, and anyone else who contributed to this.]

[Edit again: Can't tell you you're not crazy, because you might be, but yes, I see them now. :-D]

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@shrdlu: Nope. They are still there for me. They are just tiny and between the other deals. Please look closer and tell me I am not crazy. I am using Chrome for my browser. It does not say RIP unless you click on it.

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Now they are back...I'm avoiding this subject until it stabilizes.

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i see them! and they're fine with me.

i also see that i missed 40% off nutella. :(

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Feel free to discuss both views.

All told.

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@morriea: This is really interesting. In the time we've taken to have this short discussion, it's gone full cycle, twice. Little RIP, no RIP, normal RIP. Currently, as of the time of this comment, I see "no RIP" but who can say how long that will last? Maybe we've both gone crazy...

[Edit: Aw, JW, I saw your Dyson Deal on Fresh, and voted it up. Nice to see you, however briefly.]

[Edit again: Also, if I were choosing, I'd choose Teeny RIP rather than Invisible RIP, so that we don't have to hear the "what happened to mah deal?" weeping in the middle of the night.]

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@shrdlu: What about teeny RIP all at the bottom?

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In the interest of transparency... we're doing some A/B testing with various treatments of expired deals on the homepage. Not everyone is seeing the same thing at this time.

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my tag "honey-i-shrunk-the-deals" has now been replaced by something that makes more sense, but is not as funny.

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@jumbowoot and @shawnmiller: Teeny RIP all at the bottom is also a good idea. They are out of the way, and if someone wants to check on the deal they posted, it's still there, just visibly dead. I actually prefer them inline, however.

Here's why I like Teeny RIP inline: When someone is going to check on their deal, and they don't immediately see it on the Popular page, they still know its approximate position, and can easily see what the heck happened to it. I've mentioned the rule of "Least Surprise" before, and this would conform to that rule. Having them nearly invisible, and yet still there for those that wanted to know what happened to them, is brilliant, and Kudos to whomever came up with that idea.

A nice bonus is that we will see (hopefully) less questions over on AtW/AtC about why a deal isn't working, or why a price has changed.

All in all, this is a win.

BTW, screenshots of your suggestion would be nice. Just saying.

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I like the Teeny RIP's. For those who do not like to see them, you hardly notice them unless you are looking for them. Good job!

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Hey, quit fooling with stuff, dang it. Three different browsers are getting three different states, and when I cleared EVERYTHING, and brought my browser back up, it was different after I logged in than it was before. It may not be deliberate on your part.

I see this expired deal from IE, but not from my account when I'm logged in.

http://deals.woot.com/deals/details/8926f848-42af-4cdc-84a6-056dff63f00c/kaos-tie-not-water-balloon-filler-w-50-balloons

Now I do see a couple of other Teeny RIPs when I've cleared things out, so that loss may be inadvertent. In addition, it's normal from other machines, using my account and Firefox (but a newer Firefox). I'm going to check on this, just to make sure (let's see if I can beat the time limit on editing)

[Edit: Man, I am really confused. I don't see any of the expired deals, now, whether I'm logged in or not (and I'd cleared cookies, yes).

Okay, I give up. At least for now...

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As @shawnmiller said above: "Not everyone is seeing the same thing at this time." I'm using Chrome; see the usual full size RIP's deals. As it's been for weeks.

Can't give you a valid opinion of what you're attempting to do if I can't see it. Don't think that matters, though. Also, don't understand why you have different groups seeing different things. You are asking for input, yet, few see the same thing.

Confusing? Well, yes it is. Gave up fretting over stuff like this. Whatever you wish to do, you will. With, or w/o any informed input. And so it goes....

Edit: Please don't tell me to try another browser, delete my cookies/cache and so on. This is a site that should be simple & straight forward. User friendly, yes? Try again. It is not.

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@gmwhit: Whoa there. We're simply running a test of three different treatments on the homepage in order to gather some quantitative data about what's going to work best on the site.

If you'd like to submit some qualitative feedback in this thread I'd also love to hear it.

33% of Deals.Woot is seeing the control (classic Deals.Woot with expired deals on the homepage as they were before): http://deals.woot.com/?variation=0

33% is seeing collapsed expired deals: http://deals.woot.com/?variation=1

33% is seeing expired deals removed from the homepage: http://deals.woot.com/?variation=2

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@shawnmiller: And so...my qualitative feedback is: I still see the usual big RIP's. It is not good for me; but you already knew that, right?. Does that help?

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@shawnmiller: Wahoo!!! The secret is revealed!!! You going to leave this trick working for a while? Please? It's a good toy, let me keep it for a while...

I never did see the "put all the expired stuffs on the bottom" that JW was talking about, but that seems very difficult and unpleasant to set up (and slightly less useful, as I'd already mentioned). I'm hoping you go with the Teeny Rip, personally. It's my favorite.

I've refreshed a page once already and seen something just disappear (because it had been RIPPED), and that was very disconcerting. Lucky that I had all four browsers going at the time. I'm in the default group that sees no RIP, at least with this browser/account...

[Edit: I love looking at them side by side by side like this. Interesting.]

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@shawnmiller: Without viewing it to be certain, I would say eliminate them totally. I do not care to see RIP'd deals in any format. They are...well...gone. You can't buy them; why show them at all?

Thanks for asking. Appreciated! :-)

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Just thought I'd throw my vote in a little late... maybe I'm not getting the full reasoning behind it, but why do we even need the RIP'd deals on the front page at all? There's no reason for me to be seeing them.

If I really wanted to see one, I wouldn't mind a "recently RIP'd tab". Or, maybe a button that says "expand dead deals" which then shows them.

To me, clutter is clutter.

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@shawnmiller: I think the fact that they were never noticed by people looking at the page till this was posted means that the shrunken ones are fine.

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@shawnmiller: I prefer the removed, but could live with the shrunken head version.

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@shawnmiller: I can see there being a valid reason to see it every now and then, but 99% of the time, I wouldn't ever want to see them. I thought through some of the valid reasons before I posted my comment, but I have yet to actually experience one of those valid reasons for myself. I've only thought it could possibly be good for someone else. There are too many RIP'd deals appearing on the first page, and I don't want to spend half (yes, over-exaggeration) of the time that I spend here looking at what I missed out on (for example).

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@morriea: Sorry, really don't understand what you're saying. I noticed the Rip'd deals. Did not like them from the beginning. Do not think dead deals belong on a "Popular" page. You can't buy them, why would you even want to see them?

If you're talking about the shrunken view; I have not seen it. Nor has 66% of the other users.

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@shawnmiller: And, that's why I would rather there be a button or something for those "just-in-case" times.

But, the collapsed version isn't bad. I'm not complaining, just lettin' ya know what I think :)

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@gmwhit: Look up near the top. @carl669 posted a view of the page with giant arrows pointing to them. This means that anyone that reads this thread can see and make an informed decision.

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@morriea: @shawnmiller also posted some links so you can test out the variations yourself:

33% of Deals.Woot is seeing the control (classic Deals.Woot with expired deals on the homepage as they were before): http://deals.woot.com/?variation=0
33% is seeing collapsed expired deals: http://deals.woot.com/?variation=1
33% is seeing expired deals removed from the homepage: http://deals.woot.com/?variation=2

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@morriea: Ah, yes. I did see that. Sorry. That option would be acceptable; just not the one I would hope for. (It's less obnoxious than the full size RIP'd deals.)

IMO, RIP'd deals need to be gone...completely eliminated from the Popular tab. They're dead. Why would anyone dropping in on this website care about deals they could no longer purchase? <---rhetorical question.

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@shawnmiller: My opinion surprised me. I strongly prefer the shrunken RIPs over not seeing them at all.
A few questions though.
What happens if all of the popular deals get RIPd? Does that leave us a page of dead deals? (I know, unlikely, but curious)
Could you put the tombstone or RIP somewhere in the collapsed lines, so that a newcomer can figure out why those deals are shrunken?

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Harumph. I don't have much opinion on them at all, since I don't see any change in them.

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I have to agree with @gmwhit on this one. If you must keep them around, why would the "popular" page be the place for them? They are unobtainable.....can't they just "go away" until they are found in a search?

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@magic cave: Okay, dahlink. Just for you, here's the link to the comment above...

http://deals.woot.com/questions/comment/a93dfab4-c2ca-43eb-b7cf-e4827a2c8eaf

...wherein you can click on all three options, and see all three views.

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Shrunken or shriveled RIPs are better than the full-sized DEAD deals.

Again: I still contend that anyone coming to this site looking for deals simply doesn't care about those deals that they can't purchase because they're sold out. Why list or show them at all? Seems pointless.

That is, of course, if you're looking at it from a customer's perspective. If you're trying to collect some kind of internal data....well...there you go. The customer really should be paramount. And, I would hope that you can collect your * clicking, etc.* data transparently.

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I still see the old way.

But, I don't understand the need to have them show up on the main page to begin with.

Once they go RIP, they should automatically be moved to a separate rip ONLY page, or to the end of the still alive pages, in order of when they died.

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@shrdlu: Thank you for the just-for-me link. That made it much easier to figure out what everyone else was talking about. (Apparently I am or was in the control group, so nothing looked different to me.)

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Now that I've been able to see the different options, my vote would be:

1. Remove RIP'd deals to their own tab; OP's can still find them, but they're not cluttering up the page for the rest of us.

2. Shrink them but leave them on the page. They're hardly noticeable, but I suspect newbies will still be totally confused about why they're so small and why their discounted price no longer works.

As much as I think the raven and tombstone images are cute, I've come to the conclusion that they're also too small and too arcane for non-insiders to figure out what they mean.

3. Leave them full size on the page. BLECH! BAD option.

Many thanks, Staff People, for trying to find a workable, satisfactory solution.

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@magic cave: It's funny how many people are missing that comment. @shawnmiller made it first, and I was overjoyed to see it, because it meant I could see all three options. This leads me to a couple of new thoughts. First, could someone PLEASE put that comment about the views up in the description of the question? I think that most people are missing it, and having it right there, when they first read the question, could be helpful. There's plenty of room.

Here's a suggestion for the long term, and I realize it adds complexity, but it would seem nice to offer. This view choice could be an option set in a cookie, and more sophisticated users could just choose their view. New users, and less experienced users, would just get the default view (i.e. with large RIP deals on the page). Others could change this on the Account Settings, and have either NO RIP, or Teeny RIP.

Before I forget, @magic cave, I never congratulated you on retiring. Congratulations!

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Personally, I like to see what I missed. During a WootOff, one of the first things I do is go into the community tab to see what items I missed. (I also regularly click on the "expired deals" icon on SD.)

And here's a kicker; sometimes, a deal isn't totally expired or more stock comes in, and by clicking through, I get to snake one.
YMMV

I choose the "collapsed RIP" option.

j5 j5
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Prefer the collapsed RIP deals as well.

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I like the shrunken RIPs, and when I saw them this morning thought that was a clever solution. I agree with @thumperchick, though - having an icon or something that denotes it being a dead deal would be helpful for new folks. I know the first thing I did when I saw it was click on it to confirm my suspicion that it was a dead deal.

A hoverover preview of what it was might be handy as well. I know when I'm looking through the deals, the picture is what I mainly focus on, and having a hoverover to see the picture would be faster (and lazier) than reading what it was. Same idea as the hoverover and seeing the note text currently.

Overall, good work!

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@shrdlu: "It's funny how many people are missing that comment."

I usually read all the comments before I add my own, but I was seriously tired last evening and just read the first four or five and then skipped to the bottom. However I found it fairly annoying that we weren't told at the beginning of the discussion that some of us wouldn't be able to see any changes at all. It was crazy-making to read comments about something I couldn't see or find.

"I never congratulated you on retiring. Congratulations!"

Thank you! I'm having problems getting used to the idea that I'm not merely unemployed and in need of a new job, and it's harder than I expected to get a sense of a personal schedule (home chores, hobbies, computer, etc.) but I figured I'd just let the first month sort itself out. Odd change, after working for 47 years.

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@magic cave: Totally agree on retirement! Urgh!

I think I'll start a new thread instead of hijacking this one.

Regarding the RIP'd deals, I agree with @magic cave's 1, 2, and 3. Funny thing is that I spotted the collapsed deals yesterday in Firefox at my SIL's house, and was surprised to see full deals in my own IE browser at home. Didn't realize that different folks could see different views. Just assumed that my laptop and IE had gone buggy. LOL!

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@magic cave: Terribly sorry to have annoyed you. There is no way that I could have known that it was set up like that when I asked the question. As far as I knew everyone saw the same thing. There was nothing to denote that my view was different than everyone else's. All of that info came in answers to the original question. Please accept my humble apologies for being annoying.

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The rips are completely non- Scottish and as such are, (don't forget to roll your R's and flip your B's), Crab. Total Crab. They ruin my browsing experience completely.

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@morriea: Oh noes! I'm sorry I didn't make myself more clear. You don't owe anyone -- especially me! -- an apology! I think it was a matter of the Rule of Unintended Consequences on the part of the staff, who were busy gathering some sort of data and evidently didn't think through the situation enough to realize that making the RIPs teeny would provoke someone to ask about it and then induce confusion in those of us who couldn't see any change at all.

I'm not trying to be all pointy about this (when I am being intentionally pointy, it's evidently fairly easy to spot), but the time for a statement to be made about transparency would have been when they actually started their testing, not after people started commenting on it.

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@magic cave: Retirement? Wow! Congrats. Now you'll have lots of time for cleaning your house. :)

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@barnabee: I'm currently checking out rental prices for a small front-end loader, which will probably be necesssary.

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@magic cave: SO agree w/everything you said! Thank you.

With all the negative feedback on another RIP question, wouldn't it have been a good idea for Staff to ask this question? Explain that they are 3 different views & give the links up front. Feedback from users would be based on all 3.

This was confusing. And definitely NOT the fault of the OP. Lots of 'noise' on the question; could have been avoided. A related aside: Ditto the change on Tabs. Informing beforehand would have made that go smoother, too.