questionswhy are blu-ray player manufacturers such…

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I've often wondered that myself. If I were selling a new BR player to someone who wasn't tech savy, I'd want them to get the best experience right out of the box, instead of being frustrated that they spent so much, but see no change in quality. Don't quote me on this but composite isn't even a digital signal, which completely defeats the purpose of BR in the first place (being HD.)

Maybe there is a warehouse full of composite cables left over from the early 2000s that all these manufacturers share. Possibly located next to the VGA cable storage warehouse.

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The sad thing is when the HD spec first came out and they started selling upconverting dvd players I had gotten one that included an hdmi cable. The sad fact is that manufacturers are colluding with cable manufacturer to NOT included the cables in the box so they can pay another 30 - 50 bucks for the cables at the store.

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@jsoko: Those are slightly different. Spare tires have been replaced by run-flat tires, which are likely better since a disturbing number of people were dramatically misusing the donut space-saver spare tires (I can't even tell you how many people I see doing 75+ mph on donut spares on their drive wheels).

As for ashtrays, smokers don't use 'em - they throw their burning cigarettes carelessly out the window anyways. What's the point? It might as well just be a cup holder since it will just end up filled with coins and other miscellany.

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@lparsons42: It's really not different at all... Why supply a $1 HDMI cable when they can supply a 15 cent cable (prices for point, not calculated)? 85 cents more profit there, then they can sell the cable for $10-25 and make $9-24 later. Ash trays/cigarette lighters can be purchased from the dealer as a "smokers package" for $50 after the cost of the vehicle. No manufacturer has run-flat tires stock on a vehicle, if anything they give you a "tire repair kit" with your vehicle purchase as a replacement.

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@murixbob: Same thing has been done with printers and USB cables for years.

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@jsoko: My 2008 Mini Cooper S came with runflats standard.

Back on topic, perhaps the manufacturers are trying to provide lowest common denominator functionality? Conceivably, not everybody buying a blu-ray deck has a TV that can accept HDMI inputs, or even component inputs. This way, their product will work with (effectively) every TV made in the last... 30? years.

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Wh...what? What's even the point of that?

Really good observation. I have no idea.

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@eraten: Whoops...W-A-R-E-H-O-U-S-E. I misread that as "whorehouse". I suppose it's possible, but it would be...different.

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@murixbob: Sadly that is the most logical reason. I remember when HD was first starting out and HDMI cables were close to $100, if not over that in most stores.

@lparsons42 I see your point, but no cars that I know of come equipped with runflats standard, they just aren't cost-effective and people will abuse it just the same. I have however seen base-model Chevy's and Ford's come with a can of "fix-a-flat" in lieu of a spare tire. But by the time most drivers realize that weird vibration and burning smell is a flat tire, they're riding on rims anyhow so fix-a-flat really don't help out.

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While I agree with you and see the point, my guess is this:

I am very willing to bet that there are still far more TV sets, receivers etc that do NOT have HDMI capabilities but do have plain old component jacks. Therefore, they are sending the cable that is most likely to work right out of the box.

And yes, especially with a Blu-Ray player it's sort of silly to use component cables it pretty much is guaranteed to at least work if they are in there.

The fact that it likely saves them a few pennies per unit is just the icing on the cake that makes their accountants salivate and twitch with glee.

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On topic, it's not about the $1 cost of an HDMI cable, it's about the potential to sell a name-brand HDMI cable in the store as an add-on accessory for $20 or more. And yes, it's the same theory as USB cables and printers.

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@dcalotta: Downside is - there's no point in having a Bluray player with a composite output, since you're not going to get a HD image (assuming a composite input only TV is even capable of HD). Might as well stick with a DVD player until you've got a TV that can take advantage of the higher definition source.
http://hometheater.about.com/od/blurayonlyfaqs/f/television_to_use_with_blu-ray_faq11.htm

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@first2summit: If they are colluding, it wouldn't be with the cable makers, but with the stores that sell their players. The stores like to sell people $40 HDMI cables, and it's harder to do that if there is one in the box. Add the cable, you sellers' are more inclined to sell another brand and you spend a buck or more per unit. Leave out the cable, the seller is happy, and you get your extra buck.

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Same reason why most vehicles don't include a spare tire or an ashtray... It's not "needed".

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@thedogma: How can you use a printer without any cable (unless it's wirelees)? At least the Blueray makers are supplying some kind of cable! lol

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@lparsons42: I saw that guy, yesterday. We were doing 80, when he passed us on his donut, car was packed with kids, none in car seats.

edit: For the record, I am a smoker, who has never, and I mean never, thrown a cigarette out the car window, lit or otherwise.

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@jsoko: lol who knows. It's just a way for the companies to make more money. Buying a printer? Oh the cables not included, so in order to take it home and use it you need to pay an extra $20.

I have to imagine that darn near everyone has at least one USB A to B (ie printer) cable at this point. Cant imagine someone needing one with a new printer anymore.

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@jsoko: I'm pretty sure my BMW came with run-flat tires standard.

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@pg318: You know that and I know that, but I think you're giving a lot of credit to a lot of people. My almost inlaws have a 50something inch TV that they have plugged into their digital cable via coax. They're thrilled with it. If they had a blu ray player, you could connect it with some twine and they'd love it.

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I don't know about that conspiracy theory with them colluding with cable makers.

The more logical (Occam's Razor-ish) reason is that, while the cable itself is cheap, the whole process is not cost-beneficial. First, they'd have to find a source, negotiage contracts, payments which may or may not include foreign exchange issues, shipping, customs and other financial and legal issues. They'll also have to decide on the appropriate length and other features of the cable. Then they also have to re-design the packaging, i.e. the foam or styrofoam inner to include slots to hold the cables which require them to well redesign it with the industrial engineers, reconfigure the machine that makes the styro inner, test package it so that it fits and then test it for falls, crush, etc. And finally, modify the assembly line to package it properly. And with the additional weight though slight, they can ship fewer players.

So it's not really that simple as saying the cable only costs $1.

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@publiclurker: Yes, I should have included the stores as well as the cable makers, too.

Consider what it takes to collude - look at all the different manufacturers who aren't packaging the cables and all the retailers, even just the big ones, they have to collude with. This would be like some super secret mafia type summit. And then for this to have occurred for so long without anyone including the FTC hearing about it and filing suit is a lot.

This is why I mention Occam's Razor - you have to make a lot of BIG assumptions for this to be possible. Instead, someone could have suggested adding a cable and someone else did the quick process I described and killed the idea. Or they looked to the printer manufacturers and said they don't include USB cables and they're doing fine so why should we?

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Yes to LCD and logistics.
Consider also razor thin margins and the selling volume.
$1 cable per unit at 1 million units is $1 million profit right off the top.

j5 j5
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@carl669: I just searched a few of them out on eBay. I ended up with an LG 370, which doesn't have wifi, but is otherwise fairly indistinguishable from my $200 player.

A cursory glance shows a few of the ones near the top of the list are available for ~$40 at Buy it Now prices. Make sure you read the descriptions, of course; Most in that price range are used, and I noticed a few that state the BluRay function wasn't working, but the rest of the unit was.

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Its because consumers are cheap. Consider this, 25 years ago in the late 80s a VCR cost $400-$500, and at the time median household income was around $24,000. Todays median household income is $50,000, you didn't pay $800-1000 for that blu-ray player did you?

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My blu-ray player had the HDMI cable included. Apparently, YMMV.

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I don't think my player came with a cable. If it did, it certainly wasn't HDMI, and I threw it into the misc tech box without a second thought.

To answer your other question, this list is I believe regularly updated: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=95245
I would actually just recommend going with an older player off the list on ebay, though. I got an older LG for about $30, and it works just fine. The new players are just more devices that the manufacturers can put apps on and mark up the price. My Panasonic has a curious feature that allows one to eject the disc by waving your hand over the top of the device, instead of pressing the button that would easily be within reach to anyone in hand waving range. That probably cost an extra $25 right there.

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@stark: i saw that list while researching. the problem is finding some of those older players can be challenging at times. where'd you get the LG player you were talking about?

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@bingo969:
You mean plain old composite, not "plain old component."