questionsanyone here have a deal on fast food for tomorrow…

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Since Subway wasn't mentioned, try there! I believe they offer a $4 meal deal. Or, you could always stop at a convenient store and take a pick from their "roller food" selection!

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Looks like there will be a lot of open positions over the next few weeks.

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How about a local pizzeria? Some of the chains have good deals going right now.

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Fire every one of them. I can live without their garbage for a day or more.

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Support a local pizza place. You'll be supporting a small business and not contributing to the crippling cycle of poverty perpetuated by fast food chains so that we can eat cheap burgers. . . delicious, delicious cheap burgers.

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haha this won't work. ANYONE can do this job. Sorry, I don't mean to be insensitive but the only way this problem will be fixed is by hiking the minimum wage. I agree that it should probably increase (inflation is getting kinda scary). They want $31k a year to flip burgers and take orders? NO. A lot of school teachers barely make that. In protest of this protest I'll make sure to support some local fast food restaurants today.

BTW supporting local eateries is great but fast they are not. When I need a 15 minute lunch instead of an hour it's either bring a sammich or grab a salad at wendys.

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"She pays the rent with public assistance but struggles to afford food, diapers, subway and taxi fares, cable TV and other expenses with her paycheck."

and since when is cable TV a neccessity?

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@nmchapma: The problem with this argument is that schools aren't making billions of dollars. It's pretty egregious when you have millions of employees who have to work multiple jobs just to live in a crappy apartment on the wrong side of the tracks when you have all this spare revenue lying around. Should minimum wage be kicked up? Probably, yea. A protest is a good way to get things moving, wouldn't you agree?

Yea, it's certainly not the most demanding job in the world, but brushing it off with, "Meh, anybody can do that!" isn't really appreciating the whole picture.

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@lotsofgoats: My problem with this protest are their demands. I understand that they are shooting high but the job isn't deserving of the pay. IMO Regardless of how much revenue they have, by asking for so much they are comparing their job as equal to others making that amount.

Now, I absolutely agree that the fast food industry does the employees pretty dirty as far as hours and benefits (or lack there of) go. So does Walmart and most big chain retailers. That is a seperate issue and should most certainly be protested. I just don't agree with refusing to work because you think you should be paid twice what you are for a job that isn't comparable to others making that amount. It's insulting to ask for it much less demand it

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@nmchapma: Seems perfectly normal to me for somebody to protest when they're not making a livable wage. I'd feel the same way if the teacher went on strike, the difference there being that nobody is really losing out due to a fast food strike, whereas kids have to deal with crappy subs for a while during a teachers' strike -- I had to live through one of those in elementary school, it was pretty dreadful. But I'll never begrudge the teachers for doing it, their pay and benefits just weren't good.

You're simplifying things too much, I think. Other jobs also not making liveable wages shouldn't be a detractor from this protest. I doubt any worker is saying that they should make more than a teacher (or whomever else), so ascribing that to them is unfair.

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The issue is as simple as supply and demand, which is why the comparison to teachers doesn't quite hold water.

Burger flippers are too easily replaceable. If one of them quits, or goes on strike, you can have someone in his place within 5 minutes. None of us cares who it is flipping our burgers.

Teachers, on the other hand, are not. If one of them quits, the decision-making process for hiring a full-time teacher is more involved. Yes, there is a fair supply of unemployed teachers at the moment, but every one of us cares who it is educating our children.

You can argue that a teacher is underpaid for the value he/she brings to society, and that might very well be the case. The same argument cannot be said for a burger flipper, so supply/demand is really what is driving their low wage.

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It's not just the crappy wage, mind you. They also have no right to unionize, their hours get played around with to avoid giving them benefits... it's all grimy.

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Well, that opens up the conversation of whether or not unionization or forced benefits are good for their employment, which I know so many wooters try to avoid discussing here.

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@lotsofgoats: I'm not oversimplifying anything. comparing the education and skills of one job to another is the way the system works (for the most part). Teachers don't make enough money either. But if they protest they don't ask for the same pay as a doctor. As I said, I don't mind anyone protesting to get what they deserve but asking for the same pay as a job requiring a four year degree (when ANYONE can do the job) is greedy and will only get you laughed out of a job completely. Ask for something fair, then I'll support your cause.

You are right that none of them would say "I should make what a teacher does" but asking for the same amount isn't as much better.

I can't solve the problem with few hours because you've got to choose many jobs with few hours or a few jobs with more hours. neither of those is good.

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careful guys, this is becoming very un-deal related.

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@nmchapma I believe it was you who first started us on this lovely tangential journey...

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@smallbigtall: I think the way the government so readily funds the education for a teacher is making teachers much more abundant. promise to teach for a few years and you have a largely subsidized four year degree. most school systems don't put there efforts into finding the best teachers anyway, they hire someone they know or a friend of a friend. many jobs are like that and usually it doesn't end up being the one who is best suited for the job. Your theory is nice but doesn't really hold true in the real world.

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@smallbigtall: it happens :-) there haven't been any real conversations around here in a while. the urge overtook me.

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This will always be an ugly argument simply because we're talking about fast food workers, who will always be seen as unskilled, cheap workers of an unessential industry. Fewer will argue about the wages of transit workers (high school diploma, completely on-the-job training) even though they're bloated to the point where the MTA has to decrease service to cut costs. Yet for some reason we can't expect McDonalds to have to charge more for their pink slime a la mode.

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@lotsofgoats: "Fewer will argue about the wages of transit workers (high school diploma, completely on-the-job training) even though they're bloated to the point where the MTA has to decrease service to cut costs"

Don't forget postal workers. the job is at least some kind of public service and the governments try harder to pay livable wages. It's a lot harder to take away what someone already has than simply deny giving it to them, especially when your industry really is completely unnessesary.

I really don't mean to belittle the people doing that type of job. They are treated unfairly and the industry needs to change. Protesting with these demands is poor strategy. I'm not usually in favor of more government regulation but with the economy the way it is and people having to take what they can get it's the only way these industries are going to change.

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@lotsofgoats: The fact that they can't unionize is a good thing.

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It's important to look at the jobs themselves. There are no education requirements. Basic literacy isn't needed, much less a high school degree. Turnover is astronomical. A 100% turnover rate in a year is pretty common; that's replacing (and spending money to train) every single employee. The jobs are transient; easy in, easy out for both parties.

Resultantly, these jobs are intended for youths, retirees, those between jobs, and those looking for secondary income. This isn't immoral, it's an essential element of the business. Fast food employees are expected to move on. In fact, management is usually happy when it happens after a decent time; the training paid off and everyone was well served by the arrangement.

So remember that entry level fast food not a career; it's the province of those who need a quick buck and teenagers. Expecting $15 or $20 for a job with minimal training, literally no requirements other than a clean public record, and no long term growth is shortsighted.

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i make roughly 25$ an hour, and my job is a huge headache. if the minimum wage gets raised to $15, the first thing i'm gonna do is quit my job and get a minimum wage job where i can do a fraction of the work and deal with a fraction of the stress for decent pay. I don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell minimum wage will get bumped up %100 but if it does, i'm gonna go on a long vacation making sandwiches at a local sub shop.

the thing is, this isn't just fast food. if minimum wage gets increased, it will be across the board. could you imagine making $15 an hour to rip tickets at a movie theater?

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This discussion is simplified across the board. Sometimes you need to do that. But our community has a number of fast food restaurants that have closed in the past few years. Not everybody is making a ton of money. A lot of these places are franchises and the owners are middle to upper-middle class, not millionaires.

Other factors: Recent health care changes in the law. Increase in product prices for the restaurant. Fewer people eating out and/or eating out less often.

When an economy is struggling, things like this do nothing to improve the situation. It's akin to thinking that you can get out of debt by going into more debt.

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Increasing minimum wage does nothing. All increasing minimum wage does in create inflation. Sure, there is very temporary relief for those in minimum wage jobs, but those just above min wage get a boost to be above those that are at the new min, and those above them get a boost and it trickles up. So now all the employers have to pay more and in order to do so, must raise the cost of their product (and in the case of many service providers, reduce service). So prices start to increase, everybody is making a bit more, and soon after, that $15/hr doesn't qualify as a "living wage" anymore. All that we've managed to do with that is punish those that saved money as their money is now worth less than before.

The truth of the matter is that minimum wage jobs are not careers. They are jobs to build some skills and get a better job to get better skills, etc.

And I agree with the comment about supporting local pizza. SUPPORT LOCAL PIZZA!!!

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And about fast food making a ton of money, that just isn't true. Sure, the company MCD makes bank, but that is all in the form of their franchise fees and real estate (in the us). McDonalds Corp owns very few retail outlets in the US. They don't set employee wages and if wages go up, they still get their cut off the top. The franchisees will be affected heavily and negatively.

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@lelupus: You nailed it. These are entry level jobs. Not intended to be a long-term career path unless you get into management. If you dropped out of high school, have no education or skills, and can't find a job other than food service, that is your own fault as a result of the choices you have made. I recognize there are exceptions to every general rule, I'm sure there are a few people working these jobs with college degrees because they can't find a "real" job right now, but those people are in the minority.

It may be time to raise the minimum wage, but by a modest amount, spread over 2-3 installments over the next couple years. But certainly not to $15 an hour or anywhere close. That would just create HUGE inflation -- think about how much food prices would increase, not to mention retail store prices. Those of you making $40-50k a year would suddenly find yourself near the new poverty line without a sizable raise of your own.

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@ndcouch: A minimum wage increase only increases all prices across the board and decreases the value of our dollar. It's not the answer to a problem, only an additional variable to overcome.

A minimum wage increase is a pay-cut for anyone currently making more than the current minimum wage. If minimum wage goes up, then my salary is only a fraction more than minimum wage than it was before. Now, I understand that people can't live off of minimum wage, but who does anyway? Most of the people in those positions are living at home with Mom and Dad. I've worked LONG AND HARD to get where I am today, and to have it undermined by a new higher rate for those who haven't worked hard for it is a slap in the face.

Besides a minimum wage increase only increases all prices across the board and decreases the value of our dollar. It's not the answer to a problem, only an additional variable to overcome.

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I don't think anyone means increase the minimum wage to $15 an hr. It probably is time for it to go up a buck or two though. That is the pay increase the employees are asking for in the article. I'm not against a small rise in minimum wage. I'm against paying an unskilled worker in a transitional job the same amount (yes one more time) we pay entry level school teachers.

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@capguncowboy: I see your arguement and I agree. But at some pinot we have to increase minimum wage again. other factors effect the cost of living and the minimum wage should reflect that as well. I too have worked my ass, and continue to work my ass off for my wage. It hurts me to see someone who's only experience is flipping burgers for 6 months come and ask to make that kind of hourly wage because their husband is unemployed and they have a kid they can't aford to take care of. Those are terrible things but not a reason for you to make more money.

EDIT TO REMOVE MY DOUBLE NEGATIVE. GRAMMER IS ATROCIOUS TODAY

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@nmchapma: I disagree with your assesment that minimum wage should be raised.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774473.html

Compared with inflation, right now, we are right in the wheelhouse of where minimum wage should be at.

Also, in 2003, minimum wage was $5.15. Using yearly inflation rates, we have had a compounded inflation of 27.06% since then ( which seems about right because I remember buying a bottle of soda for $1 back then and now it costs $1.25). That means an equivalent wage would be $6.54. Federal minimum wage is currently $7.25.

I used 2003 because that was as far back as my data went for yearly inflation and 10 was enough for me.

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The above discussions are what I really like about this AtC group--friendly and informative. I hope Woot reconsiders its new policy regarding questions here.

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@barnabee: YUP. Help on deals is great, but these discussions are what keep me involved. It's been quite a while since a decent discussion has popped up and I was beginning to get extremely bored of @Woot!

Just because the questions have to be deal related doesn't mean the answers do insert maniacal laugh

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I still think we'd be better off with a separate section for all this.

WANT TO FIGHT ABOUT IT? ಠ_ಠ

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@lotsofgoats: Actually no, I don't want to fight about it. I agree completely :-D But I wouldn't want it set up forum style with different sections. I'd like to just see another tab for easy navigation. I would like to ban the obituaries completely though. I just don't care.