Gardening help?
Since I know that some of you are avid gardeners, I'm putting out an SOS. Last year I put in three 4x4 square foot veggie gardens. My cucumbers didn't do a thing. I put in trellis' for all vining plants, but I don't think any of the vining plants particularly liked them. Any suggestions for growning cucumbers? Where to buy the best seeds/plants? Soil mixture? Amount of water? Best online sites for help? I'm still a novice, and really need some guidance to have a more productive garden this year.
I also need some help with the front of my house. I watch the home and garden channels and it looks so easy to pick and place plants. But I'm SO not good at it. What sites or books are best for a beginning gardener. What garden supply stores have the best deals on the best quality plants? Best customer service?
by
debbiedunlap
asked 2 years ago
PS. I really just want to tear everything out and start all over again in the front of my house.
Lucky you. You've come to the right place, and you picked the right time of year. I spend 8 months out of the year devoted to gardening.
Il faut cultiver notre jardin. (Candide; Voltaire)
First, we need some beginning details. Location (be as precise as possible; you're welcome to PM me if you prefer). Separately from specific location, do your neighbors garden? Do you speak to any of your neighbors (not an unreasonable question, since not all areas are social...I've been in New Jersey)? Approximate income range. Here, I'm looking merely for 1) needs to be careful, 2) doing okay, 3) money is no object.
Are you just looking for a vegetable garden, or do you really want to redo it all? Have you ever had success, or are you just starting now? Did you grow up with this, or is it all brand new?
In addition, while HGTV is fun, it often makes things look simple that are not, and please do not forget, you don't see their makeovers six months down the road. You also don't see the mistakes; they rip them out and start over.
Once I know where you are, I can suggest local places (possibly). I recommend sticking to one or two, and developing a relationship. People who garden, and who deal with gardeners, love to see other people succeed at it.
BTW, cucumbers shouldn't need (and probably don't want) anything to climb on. Peas. Pole Beans. There's a few others.
Last year I discovered the world's best tomato cages, and now I won't need to replace them every few years. I grow tomatoes to eat, and to can. I grow a LOT of tomatoes.
@shrdlu: Please share the source of your tomato cages as we could use some better ones.
Last year we did use some cages around our Cucumbers to train the vines up as we have limited space and wanted to make the best of it. This worked for us but I know that I had to suggest to the plant that it wanted to attach to the cage. We had a large number of cucumbers (gosh I miss the taste of homegrown veggies!)and were quite successful with them.
@shrdlu: How do I PM on Deals?
@shrdlu: I've found the Japanese Burpless variety loves to climb. Pumpkins do too, oddly enough, as do many gourds. Maybe it is just me.
@debbiedunlap: You asked a lot of questions, but if you are looking for a good soil brand, try Kellogs, I love their one for heavy clay soils and their potting soil is top notch.
Also what are you trying to go for in the front of your house?
To PM here, you need to find one of out posts on the main woot site and PM us from there.
For me: http://wine.woot.com/Forums/ViewPost.aspx?PostID=3794566&PageIndex=1&ReplyCount=127#post3794606
For @shrdlu: http://kids.woot.com/Forums/ViewPost.aspx?PostID=3573480
@debbiedunlap: You can't. You have to go over to Woot, and do it there. Here's a place where I made a post (so that you can send me a private message).
http://www.woot.com/Forums/ViewPost.aspx?PostID=3790178&PageIndex=1&ReplyCount=4#post3794460
Note the "send message" below my name. Click on that. The rest is easy.
Crap. I posted this, and THEN read the reply from @catberthegreat. I'm leaving it. I'm lazy.
@lynnaux: The source is my local nursery. I'll have to ask where they came from next time I'm out there (every two or three days). Actually, there might still be a tag on one...
Nope. Just mud, from last year. I'll report back. They come in two sizes, and were worth every single penny. We have VERY strong winds here, and I'm a very good tomato grower. It's nice to have something that can't be pulled over from the weight of the vine, nor pushed over by the wind.
@catbertthegreat: You live in SoCal. You can get Dr Earth in lots of places. I am happy that the local nursery started carrying it a couple of years ago, but they're the only one for hundreds of miles. I also like (from memory) Gardner's Bloome as a brand. I'm pretty organic (although happy to use Ground Clear to sterilize areas).
Shrdlu loves Dr Earth.
[Edit] The Japanese cucumber (aka burpless) is more of a climber than normal ones. Fine for eating, lousy for canning and pickling.
What kind of pumpkin? Little sugar pumkins, good for pies? Or the bigger ones, used to make Jack'O'Lanterns?
@shrdlu: I was doing the baby pumpkins, but what was surprising was the Atlantic Giant variety climbed like mad, over the trellises and then the wall and into the neighbors yard, who was surprisingly okay about it. You can't attach them to trellis initially, you have to let it find the trellis itself by letting it run along the ground toward it, then attach it.
I've only seen the Dr. Earth fertilizers, none of their soil mixes, I'll give their fertilizer a try some time, especially for the fruit trees.
To start answering questions:
I didn't grow up gardening at all. Last year's square foot veggie garden was my first attempt at gardening. No, I take that back. When I was about 23, my husband and I planted a row garden in the back yard of a house we were renting. We both quite enjoyed it, but we moved the next year and had't planted a vegetable garden again until last year.
With most of my children now grown, I finally have the time, energy and financial resources to begin to garden. In my case, time and energy play as important a role as finances.
The real impetus was when green peppers were $1 apiece last winter at the grocery store. This year ... they are $1.89!!!
Since my frozen green peppers from last year's garden recently ran out, I'm afraid we're doing without green peppers for awhile.
I liked the concept of square foot gardening, bought the book and tried to follow it. My husband and I built three 4'x4' boxes in the back yard. All get full sun.
Sooo ... I had mixed success with last years veggie garden.
My 2009 Garden Report
Successes: Tomatoes, Peas, Lettuce and Carrots
Moderate Success: Green Pepper, Brocolli and Cantelope
Total Failures: Watermelon, Green Beans and Cucumbers
I discovered that cantelope have a fascinating growing process. They actually look like watermelon when they're small, but then, like a scene from a sci fi movie, the familiar cantelope netting starts growing over the smooth surface.
My brocolli grew like crazy, but didn't really get crowns on them. I snipped off bits of pre-flower growth for salads, but don't have a clue as to how to get the plants to crown.
I miss having a tomato salad for lunch every day. We had a very wet summer and my tomatoes were so juicy and delicious. I learned that I can't eat as many cherry tomatoes as one cherry tomato plant yields. I also learned that I like big tomatoes better than cherry tomatoes.
First, we need to decide what soil you have, so as to know what amendments are necessary to get you started. You live in an area with a good growing season, and you have good sun, so those aren't issues.
Unless they are really and truly your only options, I recommend against any of the big box stores, from Home Depot to Lowe's, from Walmart to Target to Costco. This is not where you want to buy anything, unless it's stuff that doesn't matter. Those places should still have little soil tester kits. If the kit says to send soil away, it's not what you want. We want a ph tester. They are usually just a few dollars. Test just a small sample where your vegetables are going to go.
@debbiedunlap: If only you lived in SoCal, you would love the Tomato Sale at Cal State Fullerton, you would go nuts with all the varieties.
@shrldu: She wants something like this right?: http://www.amazon.com/Luster-Leaf-1601-Rapitest-Soil/dp/B0000DI845
For only my veggies, since I'm using the square foot garden approach, I can put whatever I want into the garden. It's currently a mixture of vermiculite, peat and manure. I don't think the manure was sufficient fertilizer last year.
@catbertthegreat: I live about as far away from California as you can get!!
@debbiedunlap: How much peat? Peat holds a lot of water, you could be water logging things a bit and hence why all cantaloupe, watermelon and cucumbers didn't do to well. They need quite a bit of water, but they do not like being in to much of it at any given time.
@catbertthegreat: I believe the "recipe" was 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3 peat, and 1/3 manure made up from 4 or 5 sources.
@debbiedunlap: I left you links for some suggestions for nurseries close to you, but am thinking over my second suggestion (they look a bit yuppier than I really like, esp since yuppie == pricey). The first link is a forum local to you, and there were a couple of good suggestions in it. You might also just want to browse that forum in general, since those people will have your same growing conditions (approximately).
I'll be interested to hear the soil conditions. As I recall, your area had good loam at one time, but it may be sadly depleted. If the previous owners have been big on the Ortho kinds of things, it may take you a bit to bring the ground back to health (no, I am NOT a fan, thanks).
As an aside, do you drink coffee (as in, will there be leftover coffee grounds)? If the soil needs to be more acidic, you'll want to start throwing those on the ground (but wait until we test).
@debbiedunlap: Oh, no no no. Stop on the peat. Es no bueno...
Set the book aside for now.
@catbertthegreat: Oh oh oh. I LOVE you. I've been looking to replace my testers, and now I can just get them from good old Amazon.
Yes, these are EXACTLY what I was talking about.
Actually, Debbie just really needs this.
http://www.amazon.com/Luster-Leaf-1612-Rapitest-Tester/dp/B0001LEPYA/ref=pd_sbs_ol_4
The others are nice, but ph is the most important.
For the front of my house ... it's a split foyer, with a lot of concrete showing at the bottom. When we moved here 20 years ago, I planted azaleas and a few other perennials. And then did nothing with it for years.
Two years ago, my youngest daughter ripped everything out of the left side and replanted a few things she thought were pretty. While it's not !WILD! and crazy like it was before, there doesn't seem to be any visual order to it. That drives the artist in me crazy.
I took out three azaleas, and left just four in front of the windows. The remaining four I literally cut back till they were just 1' sticks sticking up out of the ground. While I love the burst of color in the spring (they're a beautiful coral color), and the fact that they sucessfully hide the concrete bottom of the house, the azaleas have a strong desire to grow fast and furious. I've found that they need to be cut back several times a year. I'm not sure when the best time to do that is.
@shrdlu: Peat is very good, so long as you put aside the environmental considerations. I grow my carnivores in 50 peat/ 25 pumice/ 25 perlite, you know. Debbie needs to not use it as part of the blend, but as a physical layer. I spread a thin thin layer, .5 inch thick, about halfway up the bed. Makes a nice moisture sink, but doesn't hold too much water.
@catbertthegreat: I can order these right away!
@catbertthegreat: You have completely different soil conditions.
Do NOT get me started on Peat (please consider that I'm a tree hugger from way back, and note that you are about to get a lecture on Peat bogs).
Besides, only you want to grow plants that will bite. Debbie is looking to grow plants that she can bite.
@shrdlu: Hence, the layer bit, it works, trust me. I use it in pots all the time. My soil conditions can be thrown into my electric kiln and I get ceramic out of it. Anything makes it better. Also I throw money extra money into my ICPS membership for bog conservation every year.
The front of my house gets morning sun. The left front side gets full morning sun. The right front side of my house gets very little sun, because of a Maple tree and because of the way the house sits.
July 2008 we had a geothermal heating system put in. Whatever was growing to the right side was dug up during that process and I didn't do anything with it last year. The thought of redoing the right side kind of overwhelms me. It's 20'+ long and 6'- 8' deep. Almost full shade and generally very wet the further you get towards the end of the house. The dryer vents to the right side of the stoop, so very little wants to grow there for that reason. I've never had much luck with anything wanting to grow on the right front side.
Am looking for some pics of the front of the house.
@shrdlu: Besides, only you want to grow plants that will bite. Debbie is looking to grow plants that she can bite.
I think I woke up my husband laughing!!
@shrdlu: Please do tell me about peat. (I'm too busy trying to tell you about my gardening problems to go look it up online!)
@catbertthegreat: Did you read my comment on your deal? I'll bet you'll want to tattle on it, and ask staff to change it to what you probably meant ;-}
I put a link to a soil thermometer in it (for those of us who live where it freezes, knowing it's too early to put seeds in the ground is important).
@debbiedunlap: Full shade and wet are bad combination, how about you forget you have a right side to your house for the time being.
I'm off for a while, I have to get up early tomorrow morning, but you should have @shrldu to keep you company.
@debbiedunlap: Aside from the bad karma of depleting a natural resource (Ireland's Peat Bogs), you live where it is unnecessary to encourage the soil to retain water. It already does that all too well. I like the more organic things, such as Dr Earth, because they will add back in all the little bacteria and other creatures that are so often depleted when too many of the Big Green Monster style products are used.
More tomorrow.
@catbertthegreat: Just PM'd you with a pic of the front of my house and one of my square foot gardens. Sorry I don't have a better picture, but I think you can see how much help I need!!
I, too, am off to bed. It's 2 am here!
Will check back tomorrow. I'll see if I can find Dr Earth around here somewhere.
@debbiedunlap: you can also take soil samples and send them to her state extension agency and they will do a free analysis and tell her how to fix her yard some state or county extension agents will also come out and help you pick the right place for your vegetable garden, especially right now because organic home gardening is truly the thing to do.
I live in the Washington, DC metro area. When we first moved into our current house, my late husband worked hard to improve the clay "soil" of two 5'x20' areas with manure, leaf mulch and peat. Every year I add mulched leaves in the fall and manure in the spring and dig it over a few weeks before putting in cool-weather seeds and starting seedlings in my basement with a grow lamp. I order most of my seeds from either Park Seed http://www.parkseed.com/gardening/GP/homepage/page1
or Cooks Garden http://www.cooksgarden.com/index.cfm
I have had success with seeds from both companies and usually grow spinach, lettuce, carrots, sugar snap peas, bush green beans, better boy tomatoes, brandywine (an heirloom) tomatoes and super sweet cherry tomatoes. I've had less success with broccoli and peppers, probably due to the local deer and rabbit population.
@cheshire255: My climate conditions are very like yours. Your veggie successes and failures are similar to mine.
Seeds? To grow from seeds or to buy plants?
My experience last year:
Seeds:
Grew well from transplants - carrots, lettuce, peas
Struggled initially; sparse fruit when mature - tomatoes, green peppers
Failed to thrive or died immediately - cucumbers, green beans, lima beans, brocolli, watermelon
Plants:
Grew well: tomatoes
Didn't thrive as well as expected, but did produce fruit - green peppers, cantaloupe
Didn't thrive - cucumbers (vined, but the fruit rotted before ripening), brocolli (grew well, but didn't crown), watermelon (never flowered)
Sounds like I definitely need to test my soil, doesn't it. Typing this out, I can see similar successes and failures with seeds and plants.
@catbertthegreat: Instead of completely forgetting about the right side of the house, am wondering if there is something "temporary" I can do that will look okay.
If I don't dig out last year's overgrowth SOON, I'm going to have a wilderness to deal with at a later date. Wondering if just some hardy bushes and stone would work. It'd be plain Jane, but at least it would be neat and give the appearance that someone cared.
Cause right now my front flower beds are an absolute embarrassment!
@debbiedunlap: Bushes would work, I'd give some bleeding hearts a try, they are low growing and love being in areas without the sun.
My favorite website when I need help or ideas
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/
The plant files section is a great resource and each listing includes a "does this grow in your area" section. If you find a plant someone else is having luck with in SoCal, you've already got a leg up.
I'm an Alabama gardener and my cucumbers are almost invasive. I don't grow them on trellises and just let them ramble, occasionally steering them away from other plants so they don't choke anything. My garden in unammended red clay, which is suprisingly nutrient-rich and holds moisture well in our 100 degree summers. I have good luck with everything but brassicas, but I think that's more of a temp issue, not soil. Maybe a little neglect is what your cucumbers need? You could always try babying one plant and going sadistic on another and compare the results.
Hope you'll check out Dave's Garden for ideas for your landscaping. It's easy to get lost in garden daydreams on that site.
Interesting article about pest control in gardens: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Honeybees%20may%20provide%20plants%20a%20protective%20buzz:%20pest%20caterpillars%20eat...-a0192485358
Alternating rows of vegetables and flowers - this was in Science News a year ago. Don't know how much caterpillars bother you.
@sand4me: honeybees are great, but do not plant anything that might attract them near your doors. I inherited a home with plants near the doors that attract the bees I am usually making a run to the door in the summer. I am actually debating cutting down one of the shrubs because I just can't handle it any longer. The bees don't sting me, but I do worry about my friends.
@tweber: I love davesgarden, and also gardenweb (although I contribute to none of them). Cucumbers are very aggressive, and are perfectly happy to be trimmed back with a shovel strike. I am perfectly happy to use my trenching shovel, or other sharp edged shovel, to do this. Don't be gentle or fearful if you try this, or you'll simply uproot the plant, instead of encouraging it to behave. I use this technique on cucumbers, winter and summer squash (except crookneck), and anything else that misbehaves.
I am only gentle in pruning plants that are perennials, or are otherwise delicate in nature. I use loppers on tomatoes, as the season wears on (two years ago, my neighbors and I referred to the pile of tomato plants as the creature, since it had merged into jungle status during a week I was busy with other parts of the yard.
Remember, at season's end, to just pull them up and hang them in a cool dark place. You can have fresh tomatoes half the winter, as they continue to ripen.
@tweber: Thanks! I'll take a look around later this evening.
Today - sunny & 50 degrees: Bought a new big shovel. Our old one gave its life to chip ice this winter. Cleared debris (leaves, sticks, weeds) out left front flower bed. Trimmed azaleas to waist high. Dug up a few invading trees and bushes from right front flower bed. Edged sidewalk. Raked 6 bags of leaves from front yard. Not by myself. My youngest daughter helped tremendously.
I use the term "flower bed" wishfully. With your help I will have real flowers in my flower beds!! @shrdlu suggets taking pictures to document my progress. I will!!
I pruned! I know not exciting. I ignored my planting bed that I need to start edging. I keep hoping it will just go away, well really it did, since it is all bermuda grass hence the reason I need to edge.
and I cleaned off my garden chairs and the table. I am going to have spray paint them again the paint is wearing off. Maybe I will paint one red and one orange this year. Currently one is a vibrant yellow and the other a vibrant blue.
@debbiedunlap: You energetic souls! I have been lazy having finished a week-long project and deciding that I had worked very hard and could be a bum. Maybe tomorrow the yard will call me since it will actually be above 50 degrees and sunny. Yay!
Where you live--the environment--is the most important question for growing anything. Best to ask your local county's extension office. Find them on the web. They are run by your state agricultural university and every county has one. They can instruct you on how to take a soil sample and they will test it and tell you what fertilizers and such that you may need to add to make it best for cucumbers. That's the best way but you can buy your own kit to take soil samples.
I live in the south and the best book I have found is Southern Living Garden Book edited by Steve Bender. Classic!
Also, for the person who wants great tomato cages---I live in Florida and our locally owned garden center had the BEST tomato cages! Large and strong! They ran about $25 each so they weren't cheap. You can make a pretty strong one with a heavy grade of wire fencing, bent into a circle and driven in the ground with rebar.
University of Maryland - Extension
http://mastergardener.umd.edu/
Seems like an appropriate name.
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