questionshow do you feel about apple and it's products…

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My feelings really aren't that strong on this subject.

PRO: My family owns several i-devices. I am on my second iPhone, my oldest son and husband have iPhones, I have 2 kids with iPod touches and we have a few nanos kicking around as well. I am really to blame for this. Once we had the first device, it was really easy for everyone else to capitalize on apps we already purchased. For me, the best thing about these devices is their simplicity. They are completely intuitive and super easy to use.

CON: I don't appreciate Apple's control over it's little world. I should be able to use Bluetooth on my device for more than just a headset or keyboard. I should be able to change my text message sound to whatever I want. I don't love iTunes. Etc. The only nice side-effect to Apple control is that I'm never worried about downloading a potentially hazardous app from their app store.

In spite of my gripes, overall I am happy with my Apple devices and plan to stick with them.

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I've got an ipod. Have yet to really see that the products live up to the hype.

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When I was young and my mother had one of the first portable computers which was a Compaq the size of a large suitcase, I was just starting my technological exploration that has been a huge part of my life for the past 32 years or so. I remember spending hours learning how to program on my Commodore 64 and being jealous when my next door neighbor got the Commodore 128. I also remember my friends who had the Apple II and Apple IIc and trying to play games on them. I once remarked to my best friend at the time that the best thing about Apples were that they were small enough to easily be thrown out a window.

It's amazing that in 30+ years I still feel the same way. Only now, they charge a small fortune for their hardware and have taken a phenomenal business tool, the BlackBerry, and made it into a 2010's version of the 1990's Air Jordans that kids were literally killing each other over.

Portable devices are great, but Steve Jobs did a disservice to society with his iPhone.

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If I were to own something with a proprietary OS, I would opt for Apple stuff over Wintendo. (I refuse to buy/own anything Micro$oft.) Currently all my systems run one version of Linux or another.

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I've never owned a computer that didn't have an Apple logo on it. I've had the logo tattooed on my left ankle since 1996. I'm a fan, not of the company, but of the products. That said, I can't stand iOS and the iOS-ification of OS X.

When it comes to Apple, the company, I'm indifferent. Put it this way: If Dell made a licensed Mac clone (no hackintoshes) that was half the cost of its Apple Mac equivalent, I'd buy it. It's much more about the software than the hardware, for me. My loyalty is to the OS, not the company.

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Pros: High Quality - good marketshare (depending on market, excellent with media
CONS: Higher costs, restrictive

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I do not own any computers other than apple (with the exception of my tablet and phone).

Since they run using an Intel processor, I can run either Mac OS or Windows. It's my choice.

If I bought a PC, I'm stuck with Windows or Linux.

The prices may seem high at first but when you compare the specs, you'll notice that the Apple products are inline with PC's.

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@rprebel: Did Apple pay you to be a walking advertisement?

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@benyust2: I did it because I felt like doing it. No one paid me.

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@cengland0: I'd have to disagree. I've been reselling hardware for 15 years and there's no comparison. You can get the same or better specs from PC manufacturers for substantially less (often as much as 50%,) and in the case of companies like Dell, you get in home next business day service (for businesses 4 hr on site service) for up to 5 years. So you're beholden to going to a apple store or in NYC, tekserv.

Where macs used to shine was in their graphics capabilities. Now they do still hold a slight edge for high end video editing, but the Adobe suits are identical across both platforms. Apple has even stopped offering their HUGE discounts to schools and students, which was the only reason Apple didn't actually go belly up before Jobs took the reins over again. Remember Apple had all but closed their doors and was hanging on by a thread. Jobs re-grew it into the behemoth it is today by creating a cult atmosphere so pricing was questioned, only how shiny and popularity mattered.

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By the way, one thing that bothers me is how people compare Apple with PC's.

Why don't people realize that PC stands for Personal Computer and Apple also creates PC's?

Initially, there were only few computers on the market. Some of the main ones were Apple, TRS80, and IBM. IBM elected to call theirs the "IBM PC" because IBM previously only made business computers and this helped identify this one is a Personal Computer.

So, regardless if you had an Apple, TRS80, or IBM PC, they were all Personal Computers or PC's for short.

Now why do people compare Apples with PC's? It's comparing PC's with PC's. In reality, you should be comparing companies like Apple with Dell or Apple with HP.

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@cengland0: That irritates me as well. What people are really doing is comparing the operating system (OSX to Windows), but they don't say that.

Another thing I hate is when people compare the $300 Windows PC they purchased from Walmart to the $1500 Macbook their friends/relatives have. Of course the $300 PC is going to be slower than the $1500 one. People need to adjust their expectations.

There are several good things about Apple though, they are great at marketing. They have done an excellent job targeting consumers. They have done a great job at ensuring their products are simple to use as well.

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I am a fan of Apple and their products. Always have been since way back when I got my first computer, an Apple II+. Many people slag the company for doing nothing about the working conditions of the people making their gear but that's not the fact. They are pressuring Foxconn and other manufacturers to address the problems, they are leading the charge to change how things are done. Don't think for an instant that other computer makers are better, they are just not as well publicized.

Apple does many things right, not everything, but they get the user experience right and that's why they are so successful.

I repair computers for a living and spend 99% of my time fixing PC's running Windows. The Mac stuff just works and rarely needs to be fixed.

When people complain about Apple costing more, I ask them to consider the TCO - total cost of ownership. My Macs are almost never down for repairs, I don't have to virus scan them ever. They just work. That's worth the extra money to me.

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@mschauber: Thank you for your opinion but I disagree. I would like you to find two computers -- one Apple, and one from another manufacturer that has the same specs. We can then compare those prices. I've done this in a previous question and nobody was able to find another computer that was comparable to the Apple. If you're interested, I'll see if I can find that previous question.

Regarding your service comment and Dell, I don't have a Dell store here so how would I get support? I can bring my Apple to the Apple store or ship it in.

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@fenriq: OSX malware is starting to become more prevalent It is only a few years until they are just as vulnerable as Windows-based PC's.

As for fixing them, not trying to discredit you, but you do have to consider the market share. Like it or not Microsoft still holds a very large chunk of the market. Apple holds significantly less and as such there are not as many devices out there that need to be repaired. If you don't believe that Mac's need repairs, you need to read the Apple support forums.

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Not a fan of the proprietary nature of i-stuff.

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@mschauber: I found the previous question where someone tried to compare specs but used lower end items in the IBM compatible computer than what came with the Apple.

http://deals.woot.com/questions/details/4cb9d099-5436-44d9-9c53-b55dd990d1ba/what-prevents-you-from-buying-a-mac#83

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I think Apple is too controlling of its product, but then Sony is as well for the most part.

Having said that, I have an Ipod Classic (second one), and 2 sony cameras. I am pleased with all three of the products I have. While I would have bought something other than an Ipod, with my car having a direct connect for Ipod, I am glad my husband bought it for me. Even if it does do that pause "are you paying attention" thing for no reason. Did it on the first one, too.

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@cengland0: "PC" has informally stood for "Windows Machine" since at least 1990. I dare you to go into an Apple store and say you want to buy a "PC" and see what they say.

The reason for this is that the original "Windows Machine" was the "IBM PC". For awhile, people called them "IBM Clones" but when 99% of the market became non-IBM machines, that got a little silly, so the "PC" term took off.

/been in the industry for awhile.
//Develop software for both "Macs" and "PCs" (as well as iOS devices)

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@pyxientx: Actually, the controlling of its products is what makes Apple so great.

Imagine if you created a computer and everyone created their own "compatible" hardware for that computer. What kinds of problems can you expect to have happen? You might need special drivers. Will those drivers be compatible with all the software?

I was a Windows only person until 2007. I built most of the machines myself so I could select the best hardware in each category: Motherboard, video cards, hard drives, etc. Did everything work perfectly? Nope. I had video driver issues when installing new games. Couldn't always get the drivers if the card was more than a year old so I had to upgrade constantly. I had a Microsoft mouse that wasn't compatible with Microsoft's own Windows XP when it first came out until they created a driver for it months later.

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@hackman2007: I work in education. The ratio isn't 50/50 but it is reasonably close. Most of the work I do on Macs is setting them up.

And Macs will likely never be as vulnerable to viral exploits, it's about how the OS is operating beneath the GUI. Unix is hard to penetrate, DOS is not. I know there are more exploits hitting the wilds than in the past but they are basically phishing attempts with exploit code that require users to give permission to install the malware.

I never said Macs don't need repairs, they do. They are machines and are prone to manufacturing defects, damage and other problems. My point is that, on the whole, Macs require far, far less technical support than Windows based PCs. It may be anecdotal on my part but it is my reality.

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@tsfisch: I find the whole PC only means personal computer to quite funny because Apple's advertising in the 90's specifically said they were no PCs. Yes they were trying to differentiate themselves from IBM, but Apple drew the line in the sand, not Microsoft, not Dell, not HP, not Compaq, not Gateway, etc.

It's no different than people referring to all cola as Coke or all tissues as Kleenex. On one hand you have a company is so scared of competition that they won't allow their operating to be installed on any hardware they don't manufacture and on the other you have Windows, Unix & Linux which do what they do best which is the operating system and allow people to do what they want with it. I guarantee you that the mac world would be up in arms if people started calling their computers PCs.

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@tsfisch: People have used the term PC to represent non-apple computers for a long time. This does not make it right.

PC Magazine (pcmag.com) has articles about Apple computers.

Wikipedia defines PC as Personal Computer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_computer

PCWorld has a section dedicated to Apple: http://www.pcworld.com/topics/apple.html

The "World English Dictionary" says PC is short for Personal Computer.

The "Cultural Dictionary" says a PC is A computer typically used in the home, office, or school. Also a generic term for a PC Microsoft® operating system.

The "Computing Dictionary" says (PC) A general-purpose single-user microcomputer designed to be operated by one person at a time. This term and the concept has been successfully hijacked by IBM due to the huge market share of the IBM PC, despite its many obvious weaknesses when compared to other equally valid claimants to the term, e.g. the Acorn Archimedes, Amiga, Atari, Macintosh.

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@cengland0: To be honest I don't deal with low end systems. If you want to pay $300 for a computer you get $300 worth of a computer. Every system I have personally owned has lasted 8 to 10 years. I've sold thousands of Dells to businesses and I can count on one hand the # that haven't lasted for the 5 year amortization.

No matter what you buy, when you buy cheap you get cheap. But buying expensive doesn't mean you get quality.

As for your question about getting Dells serviced, it's EASY!!! Pick up the phone or use their online chat. Run through some basic diagnostics (or if you have a re-seller/technician like myself do it, we bypass those diagnostics,) and depending on your warranty someone is there within 4 hours or during the next business day. No taking it anywhere, no waiting on lines, no dropping it off, no shipping it, no waiting for replacement parts to arrive and no being limited to VERY expensive short term warranty.

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@mschauber: Apple is not scared of competition, they recognize that the best way to a great user experience is to design hardware and software as one complete whole. Licensing OS X to third parties means crap hardware diminishes the user experience and trust/value in the brand as a whole.

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@cengland0: FYI, PC Magazine & PC World were traditionally "PC" magazines. They added Apple sections after years of only being about PCs and only when they had to in order to garner the advertising money they needed/wanted. I don't know what the current magazine market looks like, but there was always Mac World and PC World, PC Shopper and Mac Shopper, and I'm sure many more examples of the separation of the two worlds.

Whether macs are personal computers isn't the issue or complaint, I think it's apple fans upset that the term PC is and has been used to mean everything that isn't mac.

And I don't remember who made the point of it's the OS that separates the two camps, but that's not entirely true. By being exclusive, Apple has made sure that Mac equates to their OS & hardware. Traditionally PC equates to Windows (and now Linux) and whatever hardware you choose to use.

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> Imagine if you created a computer and everyone created their own
> "compatible" hardware for that computer. What kinds of problems
> can you expect to have happen? You might need special drivers.
The magic of owning an "IBM" type of machine. I can go to a dozen stores, buy a fungible part at each, assemble a PC on my kitchen table, stick in a bloated MS disk and have a working computer. Any body can figure out a working program or utility, with obscure menus- and if it's useful it'll be successful.
I am always amused by the Apple "1984" commercial. You have the freedom to be locked down into a rigid set of proprietary rules, hardware, menus and software. Having an IBM meant you were an "essay question" type of person; failing that, as a "multiple choice- no wrong answer" person you bought an Apple.
What Steve did was make incredible machines incredibly simple, easy and fun to use. Which also describes his customers.
BTW, I use PCLINUX Full Monty- what Win8 should be.

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@cengland0: I looked at the thread and it is actually you, yourself, who compares a mac to a pc.
However, you got some specs wrong.
For one the processor in the Alienware pc was a few steps ahead of your mac as the Intel i7 is actually a quad-core processor. Also, your mac is using Intel Xeon processors which is a server processor, not a desktop processor.
For a real comparison, here is a Dell with a quad-core Intel i5 processor, a similar video card, 4GB of RAM and a 500GB hard drive (yea, I know the mac has a 1TB so that makes an almost $200 difference).
However, the Dell is priced at $895 compared to the similar mac.
Actually quite a big difference for very similar hardware.
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=bpeakb4&c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&model_id=optiplex-790

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@cengland0: I don't quite agree with your statement of controlling part being the impetus to making Apple great. I think they would be better off (market share wise) letting the reins out a little bit. It would certainly make them more competitive as compared to Windows or even the up and coming Android. But that is from a business major. They have been the most innovative company as to products thus far, but it is getting closer to a time when that might not be reality.

I know of people that run Windows on Mac, but you do not hear a lot of people running Mac on a Windows PC. Don't even know if it is possible or what the point would be.

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@mschauber: You stated "And I don't remember who made the point of it's the OS that separates the two camps, but that's not entirely true. By being exclusive, Apple has made sure that Mac equates to their OS & hardware. Traditionally PC equates to Windows (and now Linux) and whatever hardware you choose to use."

Can you name an operating system that will not run on my Mac Pro but will run on an equivalent Dell? It uses intel processors just like Dell. I can run Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 2003, Windows 2008, OSX, and Linux. In fact, I can run more operating systems because I can also run OSX which you cannot run on a Dell.

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If I had to vote, I'd pick a pc. That said, apple does a heck of a job with marketing, to the extent that I find myself staring longingly at macbook airs until I remember that I use a mac at work and don't like it. I've hackintoshed a little dell mini, and that usually satisfies my mac cravings when I get them (for substantially less money than a 'real' mac).

As far as mobile devices go, I love my zune, but if I were to ever replace it, I'd get an ipod of some sort. There's no denying that ipod/ipads are the best of their kind out there, but I'd really like it if it weren't such a monopoly. I'm hoping that microsoft will be successful with windows 8, but I'm not holding my breath.

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@ekgflatliner: If you read the thread, you would have seen where I admitted I was wrong about the i7. However, I am not incorrect about the Xeon processors. They are better than the i7 and I put the specs of both in the thread.

So, find a PC with the same Xeon processor. You cannot compare it to the i7. The i7 is extremely cheap when comparing it to the Xeon that is in the Apple. That is also quoted in the other question's thread.

I cannot believe you are trying to compare a Dell with an i5 processor to the Mac Pro. Go to Newegg and compare just the processor prices and you will see what I mean.

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I was an accidental Luddite until I got a better job a few years ago (better pay) and so I wasn't feeling desperate for iPods, iPhone, etc. Then my gf bought me my first iPod and I was hooked. I think I've had all of the product line but an actual desktop. They're not just a simple interface but they're shiny. Yay. ;)

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@cengland0: Factually false. You can't natively run any OS other OS X b/c Apple doesn't allow manufactures to provide drivers for the hardware. Sure you can use bootcamp or Parallels, etc, but I can and do the same thing on PCs. I have VM's for the past 4 variants of OS X. I have countless VMs for different Linux flavors. I have Solaris VMs. I virtual iOS devices, virtual Android devices, virtual WinMo devices (no BlackBerry though, that's disapponting.) I have virtual ios devices (the real ios, by Cisco.) Hell I even have VMs for some experimental OSs which will probably never gain traction but are sure fun to play around with.

And it was only recently that Apple switched to the Intel chipset. They had to if they had any hope of getting corporations to give into their users that had these 'never a problem' computers at home and wanted the same crap in the office.

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The only Apple product I have is the newest generation iPid touch, and it is constantly lagging, crashing, and freezing.

Most of my friends have macbooks with tons of errors and problems and when they ask me to fix it, I get the pleasure of telling them I cant because I dont know how to fix them, and tell them to get a PC next time.

The only thing I have ever used a Mac for is video processing, and even that was tedious and had more kernal panics than I have ever had BSOD's in my PC using life.

Macs suck. The end.

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If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all....so I have no comment for Apple!

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@cengland0: To do a comparison select one of the few apple options & duplicate that on any PC manufactures site. I've done it dozens of times for large proposals so clients can choose. Bottom line is the BEST case scenario for the mac argument is equivalent hardware & price before warranty. Throw on the 3 yr max, carry in only warranty on a mac vs a Dell 5 yr NBD or 4hr onsite warranty and there's no longer a comparison. But, that just doesn't happen. The purchase price, TCO & ROI on macs just aren't comparable, PCs win out 95% of the time.

Quite honestly I'm not wasting time or that of my reps to get quotes to show what I've seen dozens of times. I know what the #'s have looked like time & time again. I know that my clients, some with 3000+ seat enterprise environments choose time and time again.

BTW, XEON processors are OVERKILL, power hungry & excel in highly mathematical computations, not running applications as consumers do. They were designed for servers not pretty shiny boxes.

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@jandk113: Touche. I should have taken that tactic :)

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my feelings are really strong on this subject too, and while the following opinion may be controversial, it's definitely not "mean" as your subject asked us not to be:
(PROFANITY) THEM.

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There are some aspects that I like, and some I don't.

1. I hate the operating system on Macs. It does not seem intuitive. Actually, the main reason I am sticking to PCs is because I like Windows.

2. However, I do like the touchpad on Macs. It IS intuitive, and that you can scroll back and forth with just the touchpad is excellent design.

3. People tend to compare only computing specs (RAM, processor, etc) when looking at Macs vs PCs. But there's more to a laptop than that. What about appearance? What about weight and battery life? Those are very important and generally speaking, Macs overtake PCs in that regard.

All in all, PCs are more practical and economical. But Macs are generally better designed. I used my friend's Macbook Air while my PC laptop was being repaired and I was very impressed. Again, I hated the operating system but the overall design is just astounding. It was lightweight and portable, had crazy awesome battery life, and was still sturdy and substantial.

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@mschauber: Those specs aren't everything. I would expect you of all people to understand that. There's so much more to a laptop than just its memory, storage capacity, processor, etc. For instance, when I was searching for a new laptop for college, I settled on a Sony VAIO S series 15.5". If you look at pure computing specs, I got ripped off. But I paid a price premium for a laptop that would offer amazing battery life, and was lightweight and portable.

Most people who buy Macs don't rationalize their decisions that way; they buy Macs because everyone else has one. But my point is that Macs are not as bad as people make them out to be. The price premium may reflect the brand, but it just as much reflects the amount of effort that goes into the design -- which I think most would agree, is more than for PCs.

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@mikers74: All I have to say about your battery life is on my Windows Laptop, I can replace the battery myself when it dies. Can you replace yours yourself?

I didnt think so.

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@mschauber: What in the world are you talking about? Of course you can run Windows natively on a Mac using Bootcamp. This does not mean the operation system is virtual or is using some emulation. It is running natively for the Intel Processor.

Bootcamp is really just a utility that allows you to partition your hard drive so you can use both Windows and OSX. The purpose of the Boot Camp program is to recognize Windows disks at boot time, so you can choose between the Mac OS and the Windows OS when you boot your Mac. When you use Boot Camp, it runs Windows natively on Mac hardware.

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@mschauber: You say that "XEON processors are OVERKILL, power hungry & excel in highly mathematical computations, not running applications as consumers do. They were designed for servers not pretty shiny boxes."

That might be true but you still need to take that into consideration when doing your comparison. For example, I might say that a Ferrari is overkill because I do not need that sort of power to drive to work so it's just as good as a Ford Escort. Can you see how that's a false comparison now?

The point is that people think Mac's cost too much money and I'm trying to say that they are comparable to other companies if you compare with the same specs. The fact that you think the Mac has too much power and is not needed doesn't mean you should compare it to a computer with less power.

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@teenracer6: I have a Mac Laptop and the battery is replaceable. It's not one of the new ones though.

So, is the only reason you're not interested in buying a Mac Laptop because you cannot replace the battery without taking it apart?

First, that is done because the connectors take up a lot of space and they are able to make the computer much smaller by removing the ability to replace the battery easily. Secondly, the iPhone and iPad (and all other tablets that I've seen) have the same issue with replacing batteries and the iPhone is sold more than any other phone out there. That means people (other than you) don't care that much about being able to replace the battery themselves.

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@cengland0: Ok, here is a closer match.
500GB in this instead of 1TB in the Mac, and no ATI Radeon on this one, but still over $1000 less with similar processor, ram, optical drive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883147515

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@mikers74: You said, "I hate the operating system on Macs. It does not seem intuitive. Actually, the main reason I am sticking to PCs is because I like Windows."

I'm going to repeat myself again. You can run any version of Windows that you want on a Mac just like you can with any other Windows compatible computer.

Are you thinking it's because Mac computers don't come with Windows and if you buy a Dell it does? Well, you probably are getting an OEM version of the operating system that does not include all the drivers necessary to install it on a different computer. Also, those operating systems are preinstalled and you need to use restore disks to get it back to factory defaults. This usually means you're going to lose your data during a reinstall.

Try pricing a new version of Windows 7 at http://www.microsoft.com/windows/buy/default.aspx and see that it's $219.95. Macs come with the full version of the OSX Lion and you can upgrade old computers if you want for $29.

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@ekgflatliner: The computer you linked to uses the W3550 processor and the Apple uses the X5560. Not all processors are the same.

Just comparing prices of these processors:

W3550 = $309.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117218

X5560 = $1,222.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117181

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@cengland0: I realize not all processors are the same. The bigger point in comparison shopping the mac vs the pc is that you can't get a cheaper Mac Pro, it's just not offered. However, there is an extremely varied price point for pc's that will meet any users need.
If you aren't creating the next Pixar movie, I highly doubt you need that much pc.

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@mikers74: I never said specs were everything. I also wasn't specifically talking about laptops. But the exact arguments you make for mac are negatives for the most part. It looks pretty, come on, are you in 1st grade? Who gives a (PROFANITY). I'll tell you who.. Followers that group think. Which is exactly the demographic Apple has traditionally gone after. Their attempts to enter the enterprise with a server line failed miserably.

Weight: Even the mac air is heavy. You get pretty, shiny, smooth, but with that you get heavy materials. I hear people raving about their mac laptops, until I show them the light weight Sony line or even the Samsung 5 series. A client recently put 250 one year old macbook pros up for auction & replaced them all with Samsung Chromebooks. Those who crave the simplicity of the macs get it for real & for a TINY fraction of the cost & the IT dept gets the control and security they need.

The Sony laptops cost a premium, but damn you get a lot for your money!