questionsis there a woot sales leaderboard somewhere? (new…

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Original tags: meta - stuff-that-is-dumb - seriouslywootwtf - snapster-come-back

Yeah, the lack of timestamps on posts is rather annoying to me on a personal level. (Among other things, it broke my script that posts the BOC times.)

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Just a side note. This was originally going to be a post on how cool I thought the new feature was until I realized there is currently no way to pull up the sales numbers.

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@cowboydann: I noticed this right after the change. I was looking at an expired Moofi deal, and it was sold out, and then I realized there was no "Person" responsible for sellout, and no Total woots sold. Yeah, I also miss the timestamps.

Here's an interesting counterpoint, for those that feel like reading it:

http://www.woot.com/forums/viewpost.aspx?postid=5019773&PageIndex=24&ReplyCount=926#post5068846

{For the impatient, it's Dave Bug's reply to the TWENTY FOUR pages containing mostly hate mail on the changes, to a post on Woot central originally entitled "Woot: The Future! Your Guide To Our Brave New Woot" (sigh).}

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My opinion (YMMV):
I don't mind change, but I mind change with no reasoning behind it. The only reason I can see here is to obscure more info, and in case you don't realize that, woot, that's the only thing we customers CAN think about this kind of change. And though it's not the original focus of the OP, I also hate the new timestamps with the fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

Both of these point toward what your customers want and have been used to in the past: transparency and a certain amount of accuracy. Sure, the stuff might be weird, but we want to know what was said when and how many other suckers are buying the same ridiculous things as us. I go back in Deals to try to help clean things up, and everything is X years ago. Really? Once it's past a year old, we aren't even allowed to know more than YEARS?

I hope there is good reason for this change, but I have a feeling it's going to take a better one than you think to get customers on board. We've been burned recently.

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I've had a lot of fun with the new stats... looking at how the current daily deal compares with previous deals we've offered. @dave bug and I had a kick going back through really old deals saying, "remember when we sold that Chris Angel Street Magic Bundle? What were we thinking?" http://www.woot.com/forums/viewpost.aspx?postid=4515893

What other deal failures can you dig up? What other stats would be interesting to see?

@cowboydann: this week we really improved our estimates of shipping dates for shirts in Woot Plus events. Hope that helps.

@baqui63: what format would you like the timestamps in?

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@shrdlu: Thanks for pointing out dave bug's response I would not have seen it if you didn't post that here. As for what he had to say, all I can say is that I'm very disappointed. Woot used to listen to its customers now they are coming out and saying if you don't like it tough luck we aren't changing. I tried to support them through this change but now it seems they don't care, they have to make sales at all costs. It's like Woot just became the sleazy used car dealer of Amazon.

R.I.P. Woot you had a good run.

Woot! is dead long live Woot+

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@kalira: I agree with you about the timestamps. The X years ago thing is just silly. Timezones are pretty tricky which is where the relative times help us out. But after about 24 hours they become less than ideal.

I'm thinking relative times (X seconds ago, X minutes ago, X hours ago) until we hit 24 hours and then switch to month, date, year, time in central timezone

Let's see if @baqui63 agrees

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@shawnmiller: The thing that bugs me the most is how vague the timestamps are. for me woot 3.0 automatically adjusted the time zones to my time. but if it came down to it, keeping it exact like that would make me happy. And giving precise timestamps after 24 hours would be amazing.

I still want to know how much product you guys are moving. not just a % comparison.

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@shawnmiller: I think that @baqui63 is referring to the change on the forums, where it went from time stamps to that thing it does now. It used to be that I chose my preferred time zone, and the timestamps were just displayed in it. I'd really love it if the Deals side did that too, if that was possible.

If the Deals side can't be changed, is there any possibility of making the time on the Question/Deal into a link in that very convenient way that comments/answers are now? I've always like that, and really appreciated it back when it was done.

[Edit] Too bad the day's been so long. I need the rest, physically, at least. This was just getting interesting, too.

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@shawnmiller:

TL;DR: It doesn't really matter, provided that I can parse them into a real date & time.

I realize that technically my script that parses the community forums to suck out the timestamps on the BoC posts may border on (or actually be) a violation of the woot TOS, and thus I'm almost joking about this request.

However, I also feel the way that @kalira does above (she puts it much better than I could without spending an hour editing my post down to 1000 characters).

But I also realize that for many people, "a few minutes ago" is good enough 100% if the time and I'll grant that much of the time it is fine for me. However, I've been doing this long enough that I almost see "a few minutes ago" when it actually has a timestamp from a few minutes ago.

I certainly would not have jumped on this bandwagon had @cowboydann not posted his rant. (Quite frankly, I hadn't even noticed the stats change until he pointed it out.)

Regardless, thanks for even asking for my input.

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@shawnmiller: "I'm thinking relative times (X seconds ago, X minutes ago, X hours ago) until we hit 24 hours and then switch to month, date, year, time in central timezone.

Let's see if @baqui63 agrees."

I do. (And again, I must say that I am impressed that you even mentioned my username).

The relative times are mostly functional. You could stick a UCT timestamp in a comment or somesuch, so that viewing the page source shows it to anyone who cares.

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@shrdlu is correct, my script parses the community forums.

However, real timestamps are useful and, while I grant that converting them to local time for people isn't trivial, it was nice.

And getting them on deals.woot would be great also.

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@shawnmiller i appreciate everything you're doing to fix the timestamps and @baqui63 I appreciate you hijacking my thread. I'd like to remind everyone that this thread is about the blocking sales numbers on woot. Can we steer the convo back in that direction? I want to know whats going on with that still, and I'd really like an explanation from somebody, please and thank you.

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@cowboydann:

You are quite correct. Apologies.

And now back to our regularly scheduled program, already in progress...

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Sorry to get sidetracked on timestamps. I've been working on them tonight and I'll think we'll be able to push out some helpful updates early next week.

It's late here and I'm headed to bed, so I promise to pop back in here when I get a chance this weekend to describe our thoughts about the stats changes. For now, please continue thinking it's because we're big meanie heads and we don't like you ;)

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@shawnmiller: Thanks Shawn, Just re-read my last comment and it may seem a little sarcastic to you too, when all the sarcasm was directed at baqui. The timestamp issue has been a big one for me from day 1, and it's nice to see it addressed now. Now I anxiously wait for you to come back and find out why you're not big meanies.

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I dislike the new version of sales stats; I always appreciated the hard numbers. Some of the information contained in the new stats is interesting, but not nearly as interesting/useful as hard numbers. Shirt.woot just restored the hard sales numbers for the shirts in the Reckoning, but even the artists no longer know how many shirts/items are selling in the Woot Plus sales; they only see the percentages of stock sold. That means that they get a commission check with no idea if it's accurate. That's wicked uncool!

@cowboydann: thanks for bringing this change to the attention of the community. Let's not let it slide, especially when it comes to the artists having information about their sales figures on shirt.woot, because their commissions are based on sales figures that have been taken away from them. For the rest of us, this is just curiosity and interest, but for the artists, it's their livelihoods.

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Woot is a lot of things to a lot of different people. A place for artists to submit t-shirt designs, a place for wine enthusiasts to plan meetups, a place for crab lovers to find an insane amount of deals tagged #crab. Ultimately, it's a website where people know they're going to get the absolute lowest price on the internet for the stuff we're selling.

Turns out, making sure our deals are the lowest price on the internet is a lot of work.

It's kinda neat for our customers to see exactly how many items we've sold. The bad news is, it's really great data for other companies we compete with when we try to get deals to offer to our customers at great prices. We didn't want these stats to get in the way of us finding cool stuff that we can offer our customers at the lowest price on the internet.

Continued...

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We also didn't want to kill the stats entirely. When we took a closer look we decided an absolute count of items we sold isn't that interesting anyway. In many ways the new percentile stats make it easier to understand how the currently daily deal ranks against the other deals we've offered. I'm excited about the new stats change and the possibilities it opens up.

We've brainstormed ideas like:

- Woot Speed: 4th today, 1415th all time
- Woot Quantity: 1st today, 418th all time
- Woot Revenue: 7th today, 1941st all time
- Dividing stats up by site (Woot, Wine.Woot, Shirt.Woot…)
- Dividing stats up by event type (Daily deal, Woot-Off, Woot Plus, Moofi, Reckoning…)
- Letting customers click settings to build their own leaderboard
- Woot Plus stats to show which products are the hot sellers within a single event

Continued...

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We haven't decided yet which of these we'll tackle, but it's worth pointing out that sometimes embracing constraints instead of fighting them can drive innovation. What kind of stats would be interesting to you guys?

http://deals.woot.com/questions/details/73e29372-9404-479f-8664-58a4f4637779/what-kind-of-woot-stats-would-be-interesting

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I would like to claim I was the first to post about how woot took away the detailed timestamps, but I don't have an exact timestamp to prove it. :(

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BTW we added detailed timestamps to the forums on all the retail sites http://www.woot.com/forums/viewpost.aspx?postid=5070421&pageindex=1&replycount=128

We're working on a few Deals.Woot comment features, including detailed timestamps, that should be ready to launch just after I get back from vacation in a couple weeks

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@shawnmiller: I noticed this a few days ago, Thanks a lot shawn!

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@shawnmiller: Sorry for being dense, but if this is what time-stamps are:

Order Pace (rank):top 48%
Woots Sold (rank):top 30%

I really don't care. Those stats mean zero to me. I must not understand what you're speaking of. These percentages are not of use to customers; only for internal woot stat tracking. I MUST be missing something. I know I am...I know I am. I HOPE I am.

Have a wonderful vacation!

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@gmwhit: Those aren't timestamps :P Those are sales figures. I still need some guidelines to see how they compare to other items without randomly clicking.

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@cowboydann: "Those aren't timestamps :P Those are sales figures. I still need some guidelines to see how they compare to other items without randomly clicking."

Right! I went to the link provided. Again, I'm being dense - what exactly are "timestamps?" The time, date something was said. What do you mean when you say "how they compare to other items without randomly clicking?" I do not mean to be obtuse, but I am really missing what this is all about. Sorry. :-(

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@gmwhit:

In the bar above each of the posts on the forums is a timestamp (on the right end of this bar is the "permalink" link). For example, in this post the timestamp is "Jun 26, 2012 7:37 PM"

It may not seem like much but it is important to many of us.

As for sales stats, I too would like to see the hard number (as in "N items sold"). The current sales stats have the potential to be interesting, but the "N items sold" one is probably the one that most people want back.

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@shawnmiller:

I had not noticed. Thanks, Shawn! I hope your vacation is wonderful, relaxing and fun!

In other sad news, when I just turned it on, the smoke makes it work leaked out of the hard drive in the machine that had my Cygwin and Android SDK environments (and other fun stuff). I do not feel like rebuilding this machine right now.

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While I understand the reasoning for "normal" woot sales where a manufacturer technically can make an infinite number of an item, the removal of the stat for how many woots have been sold is not the same for wine woot where there are a limited number of cases/bottles made. Many of us look to this to see after a woot has ended to understand whether it is likely there are any more cases left and how many for the possibility it will come up again or is otherwise close to being entirely unavailable.