questionswhat are the rules for tags?

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I would LOVE to hear the answer for this. For example, why did this deal get tagged "sexy":

http://deals.woot.com/deals/details/d4cb4d51-91d7-4e70-b84d-0e71fb9485ee/playboy-bunny-costume-with-black-corset-and-mini-skirt#1

But not this one:

http://deals.woot.com/deals/details/9584bb53-a38b-4c94-ac84-39137cc2057e/victorias-secret-20-off-a-single-item-plus-free-shipping#2

The "sexy" tag guarantees a deal will not go popular, perhaps the Victoria's Secret deal wasn't tagged because they spend money advertising here?

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There was a long, and useful, discussion of this which I wanted to link to, just to be helpful.

http://deals.woot.com/questions/details/4465ea3e-6f27-4b54-9f9d-e7fa3a6b7a8f/are-funny-tags-unwelcome

I am very frustrated that tattles seem to be IGNORED lately, and would really prefer that the deals for chinese counterfeiters were removed ahead of anyone worrying about whether or not the "right* tags were applied. I will also point out that the rules don't seem to apply to #sponsored deals, which often show up with ONLY the sponsored tag, and no other.

Perhaps someone needs to examine the mote in their own eye before being concerned with the beam in ours.

[Original tags on this question are:
* tagging
* rules
* guidance
* please
* no-seriously-don't-just-edit-my-tags-give-us-an-answer]

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@heymo: June only, right? July is a whole new month. :)

I have been asking for standardized tags. A drop down menu with the standardized tags would be nice but also with the ability to add your own if necessary. I understand the importance of tags while using the search function but until the tags are uniform, it won't work the way I believe that it is intended.

Without standardization, there are just too many ways to post the same tag. Examples -

videogame
videogames
video-game
video-games
video.game
vidiogame
etc...

@ohcheri: Could it be because your deal was a specific "sexy" item and the Victoria Secret is a site wide sale and VS sells more than lingerie.

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@shrdlu: Agreed on the tattles, I usually have to tattle 3 times to get a deal RIP'd and sometimes have to invoke jumbowoot to get a deal expired.

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@shrdlu: I was trying to decide whether to include that link myself! Unfortunately, all we really learn there is that the woot gods reserve the right to edit tags deemed not useful.

I think there is great utility in humor, but that's clearly not the use they had in mind.

[edit] @theoneill555: Unlike all of those guys (and gals) running for office, I'll only make a promise I can stick to "with certitude."

[edit #2] Geez, 16 minutes to go popular. Guess I hit a nerve! Where's @lavikinga? She loves it when the hornets are all a-buzz!

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One of the great mysteries. I stopped trying to understand it and just accept that the tags will be modified.

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@theoneill555: My deal is a Halloween costume and, like VS, I sell clothing, swimwear and lingerie. I've said it before and I'll say it again..."sexy" is an OPINION and should not be used as a tag.

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What I don't get is WHY is there so much emphasis on tags? Like, yeah, people put in tags that don't make sense. But I don't understand why they need to be changed to fit some conformity. If tags are such a big deal, why can't we just select them from a dropdown? A really, really big dropdown.

One of my deals had tags that were appropriate (can't remember exactly what they were) but got changed to words that were synonyms of the others. Is it really that big of a deal that you have to change tags for synonyms? One of my questions went through a tagging-change too; not a deal, a question. I've never seen a website change appropriate tags to something of their own liking.

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@ohcheri: No offense meant. I was offering a possible suggestion on why your deal was tagged sexy and the Victoria Secret deal was not. If I were a deals moderator, I probably would have tagged it the same way as it was a sexy Halloween costume.

@holymythos: My point exactly. I believe that the tags are important for the search function which is why they are being modified. I just wish a staffer would show up and give us an answer.

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UPDATE: The question's tags were just edited.

so long, "no-seriously-don't-just-edit-my-tags-give-us-an-answer" tag. We hardly knew ye!

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@heymo: Yeah, I knew you'd get edited LONG before you got answered (if you ever do). Here you go, just for sport (and yes, I know that you knew to do this, but still):

@jumbowoot: Good morning, sir, and how are you today? We're all doing just fine, and are wondering if you have any comments on this burning question?

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PURPOSE
The primary purpose of the deal’s tags are to categorize and describe the product with a set of keywords that allows it to be found by browsing or searching.

AVOID
• Manufacturer names. Use the title field.
• Store names. We have this data in the deal’s URL.
• The #free tag. Set the price to $0.00.
• Tags that don’t describe the product (clearance, discount, preorder, sale, deal).
• Inventing new tags. Use pre-existing tags.
• Dependent tags. Each tag should be able to function as the only tag.

NOTES
• Separate single words with hyphens (golf-bag, hard-drive, laptop-battery).
• Enter tags from least specific to more specific.
• Prefer fewer, more accurate tags.

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@shawnmiller: I have a question specifically about the #free tag. It used to be that we were TOLD to use it, and now you are asking us not to. When did this change, please? In addition, what's wrong with the suggested drop down, and what about my point on sponsored deals NOT following this rule?

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@theoneill555: No offense taken, this is a sore subject with me...sorry if I seemed overly feisty with my reply. The entire VS website is sexy, same as my store. Whether it's a specific item or just a discount code, the landing page is going to show something that someone could consider sexy.

My point is: I post Halloween costumes almost every day (since the lingerie tag is certain death) and half the time someone tags them "sexy", half the time they don't. There's no way to play by the rules when the rules change daily AND the rules apply differently to different people.

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@shrdlu: The #free tag thinking changed a while back, probably about the time we got price filtering in search.

Keep in mind this is an evolving process. We're learning what works well and what doesn't. Our only mission here is to increase the quality of data site wide.

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@shawnmiller: So when in a deal I say "clothes" for a deal at a clothing store, and you guys make it "apparel", which one of those bullet points did I break yet have you guys fix? Not trying to sound mean, just trying to figure out why.

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@shawnmiller: ...and the question about sponsored deals not having to adhere to this rule? It's very hard to believe your sincerity when you don't hold EVERYONE to the same standard. Not trying to be rude on that comment; I really think that rules should be applied impartially, and see no sign that this one is.

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@shawnmiller: Awright! Now we have some dialog going. [CRAP! No funny tags for 3 whole weeks]

I've had three bluetooth dongle postings in the last month or so (including 2 events of the identical item):

http://deals.woot.com/deals/details/4034e57b-6b0b-49b5-b54a-c1a3341d05b9/mini-wireless-bluetooth-v2-0-usb-adapter-curved-shaped#16
TAGS: computers, usb-adapter

http://deals.woot.com/deals/details/fbbcc27f-53ce-471d-bf76-2efc963c4ed1/mini-wireless-bluetooth-v2-0-usb-2-0-adapter#3
TAGS: accessories, bluetooth, adapter

http://deals.woot.com/deals/details/1fcba90d-6be4-4ec7-9c9a-8738383aebd6/mini-wireless-bluetooth-v2-0-usb-adapter#9
TAGS: computer, bluetooth, usb, adapter

All of these were edited by staff. In most recent of the three, they even edited out the word "bluetooth" itself! Any insight?

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@holymythos: You didn't do anything wrong. Someone looked at your tags and found an already well established #apparel tag containing more similar deals than #clothes.

You say potato, I say potato. But it helps us down the road when we want to do things like... show little thumbnails of apparel related deals in the sidebar of www.woot.com.

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@shawnmiller: So if the only difference between the "clothes" and "apparel" tags are the amount of results under each one, then like I said earlier, why don't we have a dropdown of tags? Or, perhaps a message before posting the deal that states "Tags may change to synonyms to aide user searches" and then automatically have the tags switch over.

For example, if "Clothes" is used but always changed to "Apparel" can't we just have it auto change? Seems so much easier than going through and changing all of the tags manually and having people complain about it.

Also, the potato / potato thing looks funny in text :P

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It's worth noting that tags and tattles both go toward the same goal: making the site more useful, accurate, and easy to use. It is, of course, not always easy to get to the easy to use part. =)

Things like bluetooth get debated a lot, because it's a pretty general tag. You'll certainly get all things bluetooth by searching for it, but what if you only want bluetooth keyboards, or bluetooth headsets? Bluetooth is a pretty broad topic these days. Same with something like USB.

In short, tags are hard, and we're trying to make them less so, which takes some time and attention. =)

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@gatzby: Unfortunately, I must run off for several hours, but would be happy to hear your explanation of why #sponsored deals are not required to have these tags. I note that NONE of them have any tag but #sponsored, today. At least, in past, most of them did (except for Sellout's deal, which often went entirely naked into the world).

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I was going to mention this before, but decided to just leave it. Now that we're on the topic again, I guess I'll bring it up.

I noticed the tag editing that took place on this deal:

http://deals.woot.com/deals/details/ec752200-e0c5-427f-947a-af8e728dedd4/the-2011-martha-stewart-grilling-cookbook

Ok, if staff wants to remove the 'food' and 'marthastewart' tags, fine. However, I am confused as to why they would change the 'cookbook' tag (which yields 81 search results) to 'cook-book' (which yields only 5 search results). All this talk about purpose, but are they even paying attention when they edit the tags?

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I might be a little late to the party on this question, but I have to chime in, because I've been a voice in this as well as of late. I have complained about poor execution of the response to tattles, constant mini-modding of tags.
I know heymo and I, others too, poke fun with the fifth tag. Knowing we are going to get modded either way. Example of inconsistence: (Staff/Mod Edits)

http://deals.woot.com/deals/details/243d9231-72b1-4c19-947d-05d7963a2359/monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-special-edition#6
http://deals.woot.com/deals/details/402c2e8e-8daa-458a-b38f-1fae44bf3607/monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-special-edition-dvd#7
10 days apart. Both made popular.

The constant inconsistencies in edits of Amazon Market free apps of the day. Where I've posted many and rarely do three or four tags stay the same.

As noted above though if I post a deal I will behave myself with the tags...for now.

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Clothing is the approved tag and is the one I use. Others may put clothes, apparel, or both. They all get the point across, but I use the one on the list.
Sponsored and Wootbot: I simply don't touch their tags.
The first tag (to me) is a category. Clothing. Jewelry. Home.
The following tags define: Shirt. Earrings. Cookware.

* Dependent tags. Each tag should be able to function as the only tag.
For example: instead of hard drive, we now use hard-drive.

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@shawnmiller, @Gatsby

Why don't the prices fill in automatically as they used to?

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@gatzby: If that applies to "bluetooth" then why all the emphasis on the "apparel" or "clothing" tag which is just as general as "bluetooth"?

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@gatzby: I think we're seeing three things going on. First, users don't find tags terribly useful right now, because of the lack of standardization. Obviously, you're working hard to fix that. Second, there is much confusion-- amongst those of us paying attention, anyhow-- over the taxonomy, because the intercoder reliability among the mods themselves isn't terribly high yet. And third, people are frustrated with current balance of attention between current usability (responding to tattles) and the longer run (fixing the tag infrastructure).

All growing pains, to be sure, but the first and second issues are fueling the third. I'd recommend shifting more attention to the tattles (keep the people helping maintain the site happy) and devoting some time to making a clear set of guidelines that we (frequently posting deal hunters) can follow. I think that will help best in both the short and long runs.

@faughtey: There's a list?!? Qan we see it??

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@heymo: I think @shawnmiller and/or @jumbowoot would have to decide if they want to post that. The things that @shawnmiller posted with "purpose, avoid, and notes" are a part of the guidelines we use.
BTW, in case anyone hasn't noticed: Woot and Deals uses Guidelines far more often than Rules. :)

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@heymo: That was quite a query. But will they quash your question or quell your quandary? (sorry, had an animated V discussion earlier)

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What would be great is to provide Deals.Woot community members who share our obsessive vision for content quality the tools to modify tags.

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One thing I recognized a while back was how well the taxonomy of Amazon.com's categories are laid out. The list that @faughtey mentioned is simply a mapping of Amazon.com product categories to a Deals.Woot tag. We've found that it's very rare for a deal to not belong to one (and usually only one) of the following tags:

#automotive, #baby, #beauty, #books, #clothing, #computers, #downloads, #electronics, #games, #garden, #grocery, #health, #home, #home-improvement, #industrial, #jewelry, #kids, #movies, #music, #office, #outdoors, #pets, #shoes, #sports, #tools, #toys

(EDIT)We've added the following tags to this list.
#video-games, #party-supplies

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@shawnmiller: Thanks-- that's quite helpful! Though you might want to put this information in a new thread-- it looks like interest in this one is on the want.

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@shawnmiller: Those are good categories. How about providing a drop down menu then, for the first tag? It would be helpful, and provide guidance for those new to making deals. I would think it would be useful to even enforce it, somehow. You could make the first "tag" field different than the others, and make it default to #automotive, or perhaps not let the user post the deal without making a choice from those categories.

I am going to copy off that list, so that I'll have it at the ready, should it strike me that I want to post a deal.

[Edit] Is there a plan to let us edit tags? That would also be nice, even if you're just limiting it to some subset (but please, no volunteer moderators, and thanks in advance).

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Expanding on @shawnmiller's info on using Amazon's categories....

If I'm unsure how to tag my deal, I'll often go look at it on Amazon for the tags. They're not always there but many times they are. For example:

http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-Ultra-Ethernet-Certified-Available/dp/B0019EHU8G/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1307750049&sr=1-2

If you look in the PRODUCT DETAILS, you'll see the category list from main to detailed (3 sets in this example). That usually helps get me pointed in the right direction. Only hitch is that they sometimes leave out the main category but you can get from their search bar at the top of the window. Electronics in this case. So I would tag this one:

electronics electronics-accessories video-cables hdmi-cables

I usually try to think about how someone would search for it. In this case, "accessories" would be too broad.

I'm not saying that they above is correct but I figure I'm close. LOL.

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@ohcheri: Is bluetooth a category worth that? Could you say you were going to the bluetooth store? How about the clothing store? I'm not saying either is right or wrong, I'm just trying to give an example of how complex the issue can be.

The store idea might be a good one: we have electronics stores, gaming stores, clothing stores, home stores, outdoor stores, etc. We don't have bluetooth stores, zipper stores, three-inch stiletto heel stores.

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@shrdlu: I don't have an explanation, because it's not my call. I'm not sure it should make a difference: a good deal is a good deal... and should be voted up if it's any good. =)