questionscan any lcd/led match a plasma for motion blur?


We were so bummed when our Panasonic Plasma died a few months ago. I still miss the inky black!
We went with a 120htz 47" LG, that we got from Amazon, and have been extremely pleased with it. We played with the settings a ton and no longer see the blur, or the weird "soap opera" look that some of the newer TV's like to have as a default setting. It took us the course of a day or 2 to find a great setting preference for everything (you set your preference for each input) - but it was worth it.

Have you sat down and manually tweaked the settings?
I still miss that plasma, though.


@thumperchick: We did start to play with some of the settings on the LG. It did not seem to make much of a difference but I am still trying to figure out what each setting does. Do you remember specifically what settings you changed on your LG? We really like the picture so if we can mostly resolve the motion issue we would be happy. We got this model:


@jbraunonline: I think it took us getting into the advanced settings to get it done.
I think Picture Option is where we finally made progress.
Here are our current settings:
Dynamic contrast- LOW
Dynamic color - LOW
Preferred color - blank
Super Resolution - LOW
Gamma - Medium

Noise reduction - LOW
MPEG - Auto
Black level - Auto
Real Cinema - ON
Motion eye care - OFF
TruMotion - OFF

(If this looks too dark for you, our living room is generally kept dark when we're watching TV, so adjust your colors and brightness as needed, ymmv)


I forgot to mention, if you go with LG and plan on using any of the SmartTV features - LG will probably log your information, regardless of your privacy settings.

We get around this by just not hooking ours up to the internet.


@thumperchick: Thanks. We will try these settings today. Thankfully BB gives me 45 days to return it so that should be plenty of time to mess around with it and decide. What LG model do you have and where did you get it if I can ask?


@jbraunonline: I hope it works for you. I linked our exact model, that we got from Amazon, in my first comment.


I'm sure you know that your Panasonic Plasma was most likely refreshing at 600Hz, while the very best LCD/LED TVs are only at 240Hz. So mathematically speaking, it isn't possible for an LCD/LED to match the refresh of the Plasma. Hopefully you can find settings that get you close enough but you're going to have to compromise - or go buy another Plasma.


I recently switched from plasma to LED, We actually went with a Phillips 55" 240 Hz. I posted a question with a problem I had with weird motion issues. It turns out it was the TruMotion equivalent setting that I had to turn off. You should make sure to do some involved research about why 240 and 120 aren't the actual refresh rates of these TVs. You might be better off paying the difference for a nice plasma if it bother you that badly.


We have a Samsung Plasma at home (51") and my in-laws have a Samsung LED. They both have a great picture, but the blur is noticeable on the LED when tracking a thrown football or fast moving hockey puck whereas it is not on the Plasma.

Both TV's have apps that are buggy and annoying.


Run, now, get a Panasonic Plasma. This is the last year they are making them. And the reviews on this latest generation have been spectacular - claiming it matches or betters the previous benchmark Pioneers (cancelled years ago).

Once you have been spoiled by Plasma (and it isn't just the motion issues which have improved on LCD) it is tough to change. The Blacks in dark scenes really blow away LCD. Try comparing a predominantly dark scene movie like The Dark Night. LCD = murky minimal black contrast while Plasma = surprising degree of dark detail as the director intended. Even the best (very expensive) LCDs don't match mainstream Pany plasmas in dark scene/blacks contrast.

The only situation where I'd consider LCD: in a difficult to darken room.


@bluemaple: I agree about getting one now before they are gone forever. I also read all the raving reviews of the latest Panasonic Plasmas but there are none available locally and since Plasma are more fragile than LCD I don't really want to have one shipped. With that being said, I might have to do it and get an extended warranty or something.


@jbraunonline: yah, Marketing & Distribution are my only gripes about Pansonic. The US division fails at both. Way too much tolerance for years of US M&D incompetence from the head office in Japan. I recall a stretch many many years ago when they had a madly popular olive colored military-look line of personal electronics. Bullet-proof stuff. They seemed to be able to get those broadly available. Such a shame since just abut everything they make is wonderful but we never have a chance to find out in the US! ;-(


The problem with Panasonic plasma now is that... you can't get parts for it if it dies.


@thumperchick: I would not assume that. Just because a product goes out of production does not mean support for it drops. Brands drop models all the time. Car companies change and drop models all the time. But those products/cars soldier on quite nicely. Panasonic isn't going anywhere soon. And if the experience of my friends and myself counts, Panasonic stuff is generally more durable than other brands in the first place.

While it'd be wonderful if our Panasonic stuff lasts another 10 years, another wave of TV technology changes is coming (OLED, and whatever) so with any luck those economies of scale timelines will align.


@bluemaple: That isn't an assumption. We tried to have ours repaired, the only parts available were refurbished - and that supply is dwindling. According to our repair person and SquareTrade, Panasonic changed parts manufacturers several times the last few years, making it more difficult to find the parts you need for your exact set. When they couldn't repair ours, we ended up donating our dead set for parts, hoping to help someone else out in the future.


If you're playing a DVD, you're getting 30 frames per second so your plasma is refreshing the exact same image 20 times in a row. If you're playing a Bluray, you're getting 25 frames per second so your plasma is refreshing the same image 24 times in a row. It is my opinion that if you are getting motion blur with a modern TV, it's probably something with the source video.

So the question is why have a refresh rate higher than 30? That's because 30 is not divisible evenly by both 30 and 25. You must have at least a 120hz TV to divide evenly for both Bluray and DVD fps. You go 240hz for 3D TV's and that gives you 120hz per eye.

I can see the most motion blur when the source video is interleaved instead of progressive. A good way to test this is to take a fast action movie and pause it right in the middle and it's probably going to be blurred. Has nothing to do with refresh rates.


@cengland0: I did notice our Dish signal says 1080i, not 1080p. I will have to see if that can be changed. The problem is we were using the same source with both the Plasma and now the LED and only notice it on the LED. I believe there is some truth to this, but I have to assume Plasma must be better at hiding it..


@jbraunonline: It is my understanding that Dish only supports 1080p on the On-demand and some PPV channels. If you're watching any other program, there's no real benefit in using that hires mode.

Here's something else to consider. If the source is 720p and your TV is 1080p, where does it get the extra 360 lines of data to fill the screen? The TV will use some circuitry to upconvert it and that can potentially add some artifacts and distortion.

It would actually be best to purchase a 720p TV instead of a 1080p TV if the majority of what you're going to watch is 720p because that's your native resolution.


@thumperchick: you've identified the wonderfulness of Square Trade. They take the fix headache away from you. In the meantime you've enjoyed a wonderful Pany display for X years.

BTW1, I suspect unless we're in the industry there are all kinds of changes/issues going on behind the scenes at most manufacturers. It is unfortunate you had a failure.

BTW2, as long as you by a new TV from an authorized retailer, you can buy the excellently priced Square Trade coverage at Costco. Current prices: under 500 TV = $30, 500-1000 = $60, over 1000 = $100. But note if you don't buy your TV at Costco, I believe their coverage drops from 5 years to 4 due to Costco covering the 1st 2 years vs the initial manufacturer 1 year.

Most Critical: plug all your electronics into reliable, brand name surge protectors. Your stuff will last much longer.


It sounds like you are reffering to the refresh rate, not "motion blur". To answer your question, no, nothing compares to a plasma for refresh rate. a 240hz will still be less than half the refresh rate of a plasma. unfortunately plasma screens are power hogs, they are heavy, and they are extremely prone to burn in, so a good LED/LCD is your best option.


@ndcouch: Actually, the power consumption is not that bad in modern plasma TVs. The majority of the ones available now even qualify as energy star. They aren't as miserly as the best of the LCDs, but they still use less power than a CRT of the same size. For that matter, most Plasma TVs use less power than the game consoles (excluding Wii) that people connect to them.


The picture in plasmas is unmatched by LED units of a similar price. In order to get the picture quality of a Panasonic VT or XT series plasma ($3-4k) you would have to buy the highest end elite Samsumg LCDs (5-10k).

Best advice was given above: do what you can to buy a plasma now while they are still available.


I guess the first thing is to realize that by trying to replace a Panasonic which is constantly a top rated set with a Vizio is like trying to replace a BMW with a Schwinn bike.


@ebouwsma: I agree that the Vizio was not a valid replacement, especially at the lower price point. However the LG seems to be pretty nice. I finally got a chance to play xbox on the LG and there is a bit of input lag, even while using the 'game' mode. I never noticed any lag with the Panny so that is another thing that Plasmas must be better with, at least in general. Now I might need to see if I can find a LED that has less input lag to try...


@thumperchick: our TV settings did not match exactly but I adjusted as close to yours as I could. It has helped improve the motion issue. I found other forums since I posted this that I have tried too. It's not that bad anymore but I still notice a little bit. I will spend more time playing with the settings as I get time. Right now I'm more worried about the slight lag when playing games and looking to see if a different TV in the same price range would improve that any.


A ton of misinformation about refresh rates (hint: that 600hz plasma is closer to the 120hz lcd than you think, because of the way it samples the images. It's not at all a 1:1 comparison)

The important factor in ghosting images is response time not redraw cycles. It's the very same reason why high end CRT monitors are, to this day, superior to LCD screens under certain uses. The soap opera look is actually a separate issue from ghosting and motion blur, but both are more prevalent in lcd's than plasma.

The main issue is response time. In an LCD, there's no such thing as fast enough, because the individual pixels cannot dim. They are either on or off, and even tri-pixel clusters can only simulate a more incandescent performance. Find an LCD with a response time of 2ms or less, and it will help. Most LCD TV sets are in the 5ms range, with even worse grey-to-grey performance (hence the lackluster black performance). (cont'd)


The LCD actually has to wipe the pixel between each cycle - creating a shutter effect. With plasma, there is a transition state, not just on/off - so you can have comparably slow reponse times (10ms or more) and still get a better looking (to human eyes, at least) picture.

Here's how i set up my sets - turn off ALL enhancements, dynamic contrast, even the best ones out there.. stink. It's tempting, because the initial impression is thats how you get the image to pop more like your plasma used to. Still do the best you can to avoid it... but with some panels out there, the image is murky no matter what. Next, try to get the color temps as warm as possible - this is hard to do with LED backlit screens because they are inherently a cooler color temp... but decent panels will have 2700k leds - that's perfect. requires more research into the sets you buy, since this info isn't always readily available. Lastly, dim it. LCD's look better at levels lower than their brightest setting.


Lastly - to address the soap opera look - not all sets can do this, but it has to do with oversampling, to fill in frames to match it's 120hz (or 240hz) rate. Sometimes it can be quite dramatic, making things look like an old knight riders or dukes of hazard scene that has clearly been sped up. On some sets, this can be turned off. It would be listed as 24p over sampling or similar. Really high end sets will have a variable refresh rate which compensates at a hardware level for non 30p content - always a better choice than software "nannies"

Not sure this helps with your current set - but if you wind up returning it, it should help you in choosing a new set. You CAN get pretty darn close to plasma quality (in everything except black performance) but you'll likely have to spend a pretty penny until large format OLED becomes viable. (per-pixel luminance) Oddly enough - one of my all time favorite LCD brands in that respect was a lower budget brand, Olevia/ Syntax - now defunct.