questionsgardening: how do i fix my soil?

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by debbiedunlap
asked 2 years ago

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1) Looking over the chart that came with the kit, it says I need dried blood and nitrate of soda. Dried blood?
2) Am assuming I can get these two things at Lowe's?
3) How much do I use? The area I'm working with is about 30' x 6'.
4) Do I just sprinkle it on, or work it into the soil.
5) My soil: it's like clay. Should I buy some top soil to mix in with my soil to make it more workable? Sand? Potting mix?

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6) If yes, how much?
7) How deep should the soil be workable?
8) Do I need to/should I make sure the soil is loose and happy and wonderful before I add any plants?
9) Is it worth the expense to rent (or hopefully borrow) a rototiller to loosen up the ground.
10) Will very clay-like soil hurt a rototiller since the dirt is so heavy?
11) The soil test kit chart says that Phlox and Periwinkle are happy with the Ph of my soil, so once I add Nitrogen, they shouldn't need anything else, right?
12) While I'm figuring everything out, should I add diatomaceous earth to the mix to discourage the slugs?
13) Were do I find diatomaceous earth? And how much is necessary to discourage slugs?

It all looks so easy on HGTV!!

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hire a lawn guy. Or call Ask this old house, maybe they will feel sorry and send the hot lawn guy out. If they do can I come visit?

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@bsalusa: That was just plain mean. :-P

@hobbit: Local lawn guy? Definitely not so hot. HGTV lawn guys? Usually quite hot. How cool would it be if I could score a new yard from any of the HGTV McHunk shows? In the unlikely event such an event should occur, you are, of course, invited. Bring your own drool bib.

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@debbiedunlap: Think of it as an alternative to a sleeping pill. Actually the wikipedia articles are not very long.

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Please note, I haven't read anything other than skimming through the posts, and probably won't until later.

I never got around to the other thread (although I read all of it), which is doomed to fall off the Popular page soon anyway. First off, IGNORE all the lawn advice. It's just stupid grass. Does it make cruncy sounds in the morning when you step on it? If so, it's still too cold to mow, leave it alone. Otherwise, if it'll make it look nicer, mow it (just don't cut too close, which it seems everyone likes to do).

Dried blood would just draw bugs. That's crazy talk. You can get blood meal though, which is just stellar. I know that Dr Earth makes it. It will have directions on it. You probably need a nice spreader. Yuu can get one for a few dollars. It'll look about like this. You can get them anywhere, no need to buy this one.

http://www.amazon.com/Scotts-Co-71030-Hand-Held-Spreader/dp/B002YOJM8G

Continued...

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You can get any old weed and feed and put it on your lawn. Fire all the lawn guys, especially the one that said $800. Bunch of thieves, the lot of them. Chemlawn. Spring Green. Don't get me started. Anyway...

You'll want a bigger spreader for that. So far, we've spent about $50, and we're pretty close to being through. You may already have one or both of these spreaders, by the way.

Okay, I'll come back and look at the rest of everything that was said, later. It's been a long day, and I need dinner.

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@bsalusa: The blood meal will accomplish nitrogen fixation. It also is excellent when a tree is removed, since there are always wood chips left behind. It helps them break down, and decompose (that nitrogen thing again). In fact, I'm hoping that my biggest lilac hasn't become addicted to that blood meal hit in the spring.

I had a tree taken out (it wasn't healthy, and was overshadowing the lilac in any case), and the stump ground down, and there were clumps of wood everywhere in the soil. That was three years ago. The soil is just nice rich loam, now.

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Im guessing this is a garden bed prodject? If its planting grass its pretty much the same but no potting soil.
1) Dried blood? eww
2) I have no idea
3) I don't know about dried blood, but top soil around 10-12 bags
4) Dump the bags and spread them out (but its not 1st, keep reading)
5) Yes top soil, and potting mix if you want, no need for sand.
6) I said that in #3
7) 6 inches to 1 foot (or more)
8) Yes loosening up your clay soil is the 1st step in this
9) Thats up to you, the rototiller should do it, but if you dont want to rent it, you gotta do it by hand with a shovel.
10) Not if its got sharp enough tillers and a good RPM
11) I have no idea what those words mean. :)
12) I've never had trouble with slugs, do you? If so, i dont know.
13) ^
Steps: loosen up clay really good, put down top soil (and/or potting soil), put in your plants, spread some mulch (optional, [not for grass])

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@debbiedunlap: Before I run off, question number 11 is way easy (thanks to @duckcake for making me notice it). Yes, you are correct. Sprinkle some blood meal over the ground, and do NOT forget to add some fertilizer as you plant them. Maybe I'll come back in a bit with suggestions for planting bedding plants.

You need bone meal along with a nice general fertilizer.

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You mentioned something about having a high amount of clay in your soil, which correlates to your lack of nitrogen. Aside from blood meal, you need to add more organic material to your soil and gypsum. I can't help with what counts as organic material that won't conflict with what you are doing, but gypsum helps break down the clay, http://www.usagypsum.com/consumerproducts.aspx

8/9/10) not unless your rototiller is really really crappy, even a home depot rental will do the job just fine. Rent a rototiller. The rototiller will also make sure everything is blended together real nice after you add all you additives, so you have consistent soil.

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Found this site: http://www.basic-info-4-organic-fertilizers.com/bloodmeal.html It was fairly science-for-dummies.

Lowe's has 3-lb bags of Miracle Grow Blood Meal. According to this site, and the fact that I have no measurable amounts of nitrogen, I should get three bags?

Also, the soil kit suggests adding both the blood and the soda? (This is REALLY sounding like some sick science experiment!) Yes? No? Ace Hardware has 4-lb bags of Bonide Nitrate of Soda.

@shrdlu: No, I don't have a spreader, large or small.

Here is a comprehensive list of my gardening supplies (no sniggering, eye rolling or distain, please):
1 round point digging shovel (I looked up what it's called)
1 leaf rake
1 steel rake
1 hand trowel
3 fifty foot hoses and a nice spray nozzle
1 fairly new 20" lawn mower
1 old rug to kneel on

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@catbertthegreat: 40-lbs of gypsum. Check!

Thanks for the site. Easy to understand.

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Diatomaceous Earth: http://deals.woot.com/deals/details/f53da61f-77b2-4bac-b47a-1d123324f779/concern-diatomaceous-earth-crawling-insect-killer-4-pound-bag-for-11-49-7-99

@debbiedunlap: I'm not sure you need that much, well maybe you do, it depends on how much soil you plan to mix it in to.

Mixing bit:
Gardens: Apply 20 lbs. (9 Kg) per 100 sq. ft. (9.3 Sq. m.) after tilling. Mix into soil and water thoroughly.

This is a spreader: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_07160397000P?vName=Lawn%20&%20Garden=&cName=OutdoorTools&Supplies=&sName=Sprayers%20&%20Spreaders=&psid=FROOGLE01&sid=IAx20090815x000001&aff=Y

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@catbertthegreat: Should I mix it, or spread it on top after I'm finished? Will one bag be enough?

I know I sound like a moron, but this really does seem like rocket science to me!

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These many pounds of different additives will replace a lot of missing dirt, in addition to making the flowers happy. The front right yard and flower garden were destroyed when they put in the geothermal. The dirt from three/four feet down is now on top and everything is uneven and more clay than dirt. I didn't realize how much clay until I started messing with it this week.

On the up side, the geothermal system is FANTABULOUS. Quiet. Warm. And since the installation, our electric bill is 30 - 50% lower each month. I guess, in a way, it's paying for the yard restoration.

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@duckcake: "top soil around 10-12 bags"

How many cubic feet is that?

I'm making a list of everything I'm going to need. Before buying online, I'll take my list to the Amish, local nurseries, and Lowe's to see what I can get locally and to compare prices.

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@shrdlu: Have seen these handheld spreaders. Can definitely find one of those around here.

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@debbiedunlap: 10-12 bags 40 pounds each ($1.50 a bag when i did it) will cover your 30' x 6' area with about an inch or so thick of top soil

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Here's my preliminary list:

Diatomaceous Earth – 1 or 2 bags @ $20/bag (or less if I find it local)
25-lbs Gypsum – 2 bags @ $6/bag
Topsoil – 10-12 bags @ $1.50/bag
Blood Meal – 3 bags @ $6/bag
Handheld Spreader – $13
Fertilizer - ????

Have looked online and will be able to find most of this stuff locally.

I wish I could reach through my computer and give you all a big hug!!

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One quick note (I think that @catbertthegreat has stepped in, and he knows stuff, so that's excellent). I don't usually buy anything that says "topsoil" because it's usually crapsoil. I don't care who's name is on the bad, either. You can't buy good dirt. You have to make it.

Since your soil seems to be slightly acidic, the addition of the diatomaceous earth will be fine. My own soil, while clay, is anything but acidic. I add coffee grounds to my soil all the time, and pour a vinegar solution on those plants that will benefit from it. On the other hand, I've been providing amendments to the yard since Spring 2007, so I think I'm catching up on needing to keep up with the emergency measures (other than the front garden bed, which has somehow escaped my tender ministrations).

I'm far more arganic than @catbertthegreat in my gardening, but you are better off following his suggestions whenever we differ, because my way is usually more expensive. Much more, in some cases.

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In addition to the gypsum, what "organic material" do I need to add to the soil?

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@debbiedunlap: Manure is the easiest but it tends to acidify things and your pretty acidic already. Peat works too, but it acidifies things, is bad for the environment and breaks down far too quickly, stay away from peat.

Worm casings and rice hulls are excellent, but are very expensive, at least the worm casings are. Worm casings help repel white flies for some reason, but requires reapplication every three months, unlike systemic pesticides.

Your best bet is to add compost. You do not have to make it yourself, all major big box garden centers and home improvement stores, even the small places, carry large bags of compost like this: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xhc/R-100207757/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

I can't tell you how much to add, it is a sort of by feel thing. This will also provide plenty of Nitrogen

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Here are some simplified preparation steps:
1.) Without any ingredients on the soil, run the rototiller over the area you want to add amendments.

2.)Now lay down the compost, rototill again.

3.)Sprinkle down the blood meal, gypsum, and the diatomaceous earth, till that only into the top 2-4 inches of soil, you may have to do that by hand as the rototiller tends to go about 6-12 inches into the soil, pushing the fertilizer to deep into the soil to be useful.

You shouldn't need any other fertilizers, but if you wish to add more, get the Dr. Earth fertilizer that is designed for what you plan to plant following the instructions on the box.

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As far as the nitrogen content, I just bought a slow-release lawn fertilizer called Turf Trust at a local independent gardening shop. The big-box stores don't stock it. I used it on my grass last year and have used a similar product in the past and it has really helped. Doesn't run off into the watershed or burn the lawn when accidentally applied a little too heavily and it is a more consistent nitrogen release over a longer time frame (better for the grass). Usually you can get good advice from the more knowledgeable people working in those shops as well, including pamphlets from the state extension service.

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@catbertthegreat: As far as the compost, the county I live in (in Maryland) supplies unaged compost for free at the local transfer station (dump and recycling transfer facility) if you come pick it up yourself. Otherwise, a mix of leaf mulch, sphagnum moss and manure is a great way to loosen and improve the clay soil and if you keep doing that every year, the soil only gets better and better.

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Hubby and I went shopping today. We started with the Amish nursery just a bit up the road. The old Amish fellow suggested some organic stuff to use instead of topsoil. We also found the blood and an organic fertilizer there. Chickity Doo Doo or something like that. Funny name. Lowes had the handheld spreader, the gypsum, and I bought the last two bags of diatomaceous earth. I got it all!

While at the Amish nursery, I saw the cutest shamrock plant. It likes shade, but it was an annual. No dice. The whole point of me doing this side of the house in ground cover is to eliminate the need to do a whole lot with it year after year.

Btw, since the phlox and periwinkle are perennials, do I need to wait till after the chance of the last frost has passed to plant them? Didn't see any periwinkle in my travels today. Did see phlox. Wonder if periwinkle will be more difficult to obtain.

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@debbiedunlap: My phlox is already up and creeping, but then, it never really died back. Last night was a mere 26, no, that was the night before. last night was 27. Much better. Of course, right now it's 68, down from 68 (remember, it's a desert), but I expect it to be perhaps 30 tonight.

I'd wait until the ground's a bit warmer. You want it to take, and thrive, after all. Patience.

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@shrdlu: Patience? I do keep forgetting that, don't I? Must have patience.

Guess after we get the ground ready out front, I'll work on getting the veggie gardens ready to go. That's the next thing on my 'to do' list.

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I know that the following advice will be obvious, or old hat, to some, but it's still useful.

Bedding plants, and other seedlings, need more than just a hole in the ground. For success with your transplants, whether it's a bunch of petunias, or a six foot tree, the procedure is basically the same.

Free up the roots a bit. With seedlings, you can do this with your fingers, in just a brief moment, before you put them in the ground. For larger plants this might take a small gardening fork, or even clippers for stubborn roots. For trees, clipping the extended roots actually encourages them (but please ask for advice from the place you're buying it from if you are new to this).

Fertilizer is important. With bedding plants (which are usually annuals), I mix a general fertilizer with bone meal, and give everything at least a pinch or two.

Continued...

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Fertilizing, continued...

For trees and for larger plants, fertilize according to the plant (Azaleas will want a different mix than Diabolo Ninebark, for example). I add bone meal (or even blood meal) to nearly everything I plant. Remember to fertilize your garden vegetables about once a month, while they're producing.

Water them. Please. If you are in an area where there is high rainfall, your soil may already be too damp, but for most people, that plant needs a drink. For bedding plants, I just water after I'm through putting them in the soil. For larger plants, I water the hole it's going into, let that water settle in, put the plant in, and then water more at the surface. I often make a nice moat around the plant to be sure that rain and irrigation water collects there, to give it an extra boost.

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My yard STINKS!! Fertilizer, blood meal and gypsum do not smell good. I'm just putting it out there.

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@debbiedunlap: Sure, but the smell will die down. I promise. At least now, next spring, when you do this again, you'll be prepared for it.

We all have our little burdens. I had to buy mountaineer-style tent stakes, so that I could use hay bale twine (my version of duct tape) to create guy lines into the ground, to keep the second green house tower from blowing over in the wind. The first one's anchored securely to the fence, and I thought about just running lines from the fence, but this makes more sense. Nothing like 40mph winds to get your heart started.

BTW, I had just put it out there with weights on the bottom shelf to see if that would do it, so it's not like I lost anything, and I'd suspected that I had to make tie-downs. Happens.

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@shrdlu: Rained today. Smell is much better. :)

Do you get winds like that frequently?

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@debbiedunlap: Winds? All the time. It's a desert. When there's a strong temperature change, other areas might get rain, we get wind. Fortunately, we only get wind a few times a year. Winter, Spring, Summer, and Fall.

You just prepare for what you know. I like a lot of sun, and have very few shady spots. This means that Azaleas (which take quite a bit of care in this area) are out. On the other hand, I can grow tomatoes like nobody's business. I plant things that won't do well in too much wind in parts of the yard where they'll be protected.

I actually like the wind. It's familiar, like an old friend who's a bit crochety. It clears out the air, and it presages a weather change. Many of the trees in this area don't grow straight up, because they've learned to bend with the wind. Those that don't, don't survive.