How should I top off a cinder block safe room in my basement?
I'm putting a cinder block room in my basement instead of buying a gun safe. It can double as a fire protection room too, but I'm not sure how to cap the top off so in the event of a fire the first floor doesn't collapse in on it. I'm thinking of steel sheets, but can't figure out how I'd attach them to the walls. Maybe bend the edges down and screw into the outside of the room? Any other ideas of how to cap it? Ideally it would be removable so I can access any pipes or wiring in the area if needed.
by
jeffrjohn
asked 4 months ago
If you really want the room to be a safe room, you don't want to have it a roof that can be removed. Ideally, a rebar concrete slab is ideal for the roof.
You want to remember that not only do you want to prevent stuff from falling in on you, but you need to be aware of stuff falling down on you as well. Things like storms will generate incredible speeds while throwing things in all directions, so you will want something strong enough to take that sort of impact.
Wow! That is quite a question... I have no idea right off the bat. I'll be interested to see what answers come up though.
@imshadow22: @imshadow22: I hadn't thought of it as a storm protection room, that's a great idea. A rebar reinforce ceiling is a good idea. Heavy as hell, but great protection. I'm going to try to find a place with no pipes so I won't have to worry about access, and this is definitely a viable option.
Although, even with a removable top, no one would be able to get in without removing the floor joists above. That would be one determined thief.
as an option for your steel roof idea- i used concrete anchors (available at hardware stores) to attach a ramp into cinder blocks on my sidewalk. you have to predrill all the holes and be carefull to not overtighten because the block can crack. also require special bits to install. but still cheaper than removing the floor to get a concrete slab installed as a ceiling.
For fire proofing without the expense and weight of a rebar slab, steel studs, fiber cement or fiberglass reinforced cement board, and fire rated (type X) drywall.
@narfcake: Will that hold the weight of a collapsing upper floor?
@jeffrjohn: For being enough to meet a 1 hour fire rating, no.
To be able to support the floor above in the event of a disaster, use steel beams instead. How big, that's well beyond the scope of what I can say. I'm not a structural engineer.
@jeffrjohn: How big of a room are we talking about here?
@stupimlico: I'm thinking about 6'x8'
@jeffrjohn: One support post in the center of a 6'x8' room should do the trick.
A safe room would be built for security first. Utility access is down the list. Your safe room may have a sealed conduit for power and communications, but water and toilet would probably be self contained, a camp toilet and bottled water.
As such, access to utilities would not even be an issue.
As noted, the ceiling should be a re-bar reinforced, pre-stressed cement slab for strength. It should also have a low thermal conduction and ability to withstand high temperatures for several hours. Attachments should be internal to the room, via anchors into the roof slab and into the room walls.
My question: What provision do you have for ventilation? A standpipe arrangement with remote valves or caps?
You need one of those hydraulic lift storm shelter roofs.
@tpscan: @tpscan: It's not a safe room in the sense that "someone is in the house, I'm going to lock my family inside this room". It's a safe room in the sense that "someone is in my room, I'm going down to the room where I keep my Bushmaster AR-15 to get them out of my house". But, in case of a tornado, ventilation is probably a good idea.
@jeffrjohn:
Ventilation also keeps moisture in check. Basements can get moist and gun parts can corrode or rust.
Forget the AR-15. A stray jacketed 5.62mm round can penetrate a wall, but still may not stop a close up attacker, instead they just punch through with a small wound.
Instead consider a folding stock Saiga-12 for general room clearing and a 10mm Glock 20/29 with HP rounds for close in work.
The combination gives you agile response in tight quarters, plenty of stopping power, quick aim in a tense situation, with little risk of stray shots penetrating walls. Some prefer the .45 ACP, but trust me, the 10mm (which is the same caliber as a 0.40) Hollow Point will stop an attacker, even if the hit is off center. Delivering 580-640 ft·lbs, the 180 gr, HP, 10mm can stun someone just from the shock.
See:
http://greent.com/40Page/ammo/10/10mm-advoc.htm
http://www.bren-ten.com/website/id7.html
http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/117429-10mm-auto-bear-defense-13.html
@tpscan: Frangibles bro.
10mm and 12 ga is going to blow holes through a wall just the same as 5.56.
Back to the original question: ideally, you'd want to tie the rebar from the walls into the rebar from the roof, which should be prestressed concrete. A setup like this would stand up to pretty much anything.
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