questionshave you ever successfully trained your dog not…

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Perhaps the dog just needs to bond with someone to stop his bolting. Just a guess. Also, if we walk a dog without a leash, where I live, we can get a ticket.

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@barnabee: I will ask about the bonding when I speak with the rescue person this coming week.

I should clarify what I said about walking my previous dogs. They were only walked without a leash while on my property. If they were taken anywhere else they were leashed.

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Maybe try something like this:
http://www.petsafe.net/training-behavior/remote-trainers

It is a remote training collar. If the dog starts to bolt...

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@morriea: I will check into it. Thank you.

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@jnissel: I would not use an electronic zapper collar on any dog personally ( I know there is a lot of debate both ways on this but it seems to be leaning more on the don't use as far as I have read lately} , and definitely not on one that has been abused/mistreated.

You might try and summon @thumperchick . I think she ordered one of the collars they had on Woot that instead of an electronic zap, gives a squirt of something unpleasant smelling from the collar. She also adopted a puppy/dog recently that has had some training challenges and might be able to offer some words of experience.

Is this the adorable apricot poodle ?

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@ceagee: I went to the link provided and when I found out everything it could do I nixed considering it. Not only do I feel that shocking the dog is inhumane, doing any of the things would probably cause the poor thing to keep running trying to "get away" from what is hurting/bothering him.

Unfortunately it is the poodle. I do want to find a way to get him. Hopefully I will find that way.

@thumperchick, would you please help me?

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I did get the spray collar, but we are still working on the positive re-enforcement aspect of it. Good tone, treat + affection. I want him to love that thing before we train him with the negative tone or spray.

And no, my dogs are both bolters - they're huskies and they love to RUN. If the think they have stepped out of my area of control, I'm hosed. Sorry! The best advice i can give you is to use a leash. Perhaps someone else has successfully broken this habit, but I have not.

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@jnissel: I have a friend who is a retired professional dog trainer. Let me see what she has to suggest; it may take me a day to get a response from her, if you can wait just a bit. I'd hate to have you miss out on Howard.

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@thumperchick: Thanks for answering so quickly.

I think I will call my vet tomorrow and ask for his opinion. I will post here if he has any suggestions.

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@magic cave: THANK YOU! You don't know how much I appreciate that. When I think about not getting Howard my eyes get teary. How in the world did I fall in love with a dog I have never seen in person?

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@everyone who is helping me:

I want to thank each and every one of you and, while I still desire your help, I want to let you know I have made a decision.

About 10 minutes ago I sent an email to the person I have been dealing with at the rescue group. In part I told her the following:

"I spoke about Howard being a bolter with my son and several others. I have decided that I will do whatever it takes to keep him safe, including, if needed, professional training. Howard is the dog I want. Even my first poodle, who was also a bolter, never got away from me. I am also going to check with my vet tomorrow to see if he has any suggestions."

I'm not sure why I feel this way but Howard is the "pup" I want!

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@jnissel: I will agree that the shock or negative response will most likely be the opposite of what you want. When a dog bolts, any bad thing will urge that flight response more. What is needed is some form of positive training, with incredible timing - your key is catching their attention at the first sign of unwanted behavior. Once they have gotten set in the undesired behavior, you have lost that round.

My investment in the collar is specifically to train Loki off-leash recall in, mostly in the hopes that the negative tone will catch Loki's attention fast enough to redirect him to focus on me, instead of STUFF. But it would be useless when he bolts. When that happens, he knows - his whole body language changes - so I have to train him to never get that idea. I'm still working that out.

Sorry my longer response took so long, I was watching the Broncos get killed by the Seahawks.

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@jnissel: sometimes, you just know when you are supposed to add a dog to your family. I'm glad you've decided to do what it takes to make it work. Also, congrats!

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@jnissel: YES! I'm so glad to hear of your decision! I've sent the email off to my friend the trainer (along with another dozen women on the same mailing list, all of whom are deeply dog-connected and wise). With luck I'll have some information for you tomorrow or Tuesday.

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@thumperchick: "I was watching the Broncos get killed by the Seahawks."

My interest in sports pretty much begins and ends with the Puppy Bowl, but I just noticed the final score on that other game today. DAY-YUM! That was an unexpected rout!

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@magic cave: Once again I must thank you for your kindness.

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@thumperchick: Thank you. I appreciate your congrats and your help.

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@jnissel: One of the best dogs I have ever had was one whose picture was in the paper of a rescue organization. There wasn't anything extraordinary about the picture (it looked like a mug shot) or the dog. But I just fell in love with that big ol' mutt and I wanted him to be mine.

Good luck with Howard. He is one very lucky dog.

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if you want to see Howard please go to;

and

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@jnissel: He's a handsome fellow! Looks like a happy lil guy, too!

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@thumperchick: I just edited my post so the pictures show up in it. Unfortunately I did not edit the first line of text. :(

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@barnabee said "Good luck with Howard. He is one very lucky dog.":

Thanks for your kind words but if I get him I will consider myself the lucky one.

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@thumperchick: I was told he is very affectionate. I was also told he like to sleep on the bed. I have no problem with that.

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Here is one more picture I just found. It was taken 2 months ago. I was told because of the operation plus the fact that he was so matted he had to be shaved bald. They gave him a sweater to wear while his fur was growing back.

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Aww, doesn't that picture of him with his little bandage, just melt your heart?

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I had a dog that would bolt. The way I broke that habit was to take him for long walks everyday and he was also neutered. I was told by a dog trainer friend that the reason most dogs do that is because they are curious by nature and if they are not taken out to explore they will do it themselves. The neutered part came in because when dogs are in heat they will definitely bolt.
After about 6 months of walks my dog was able to be off leash with me. I did not have a fenced in back yard so to help with the extra energy we went to fenced in dog parks. You just have to keep in mind that the dog park is not a substitute for good long walks.
Good luck to you with a little bit of work you should have no problems.

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@ronguiness: The long walks idea seems plausible. Thank you. As far as the neutering part he is already neutered.

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@jnissel: It's definitely about the walks and mental stimuli. Being chained up or constantly crated pretty much builds bolters IMHO. Long walks and lots of involved play time will make a huge difference. Try one of the treat games to keep his interest. In the mean time find a treat he REALLY likes to hold his attention. Also when you are in your yard and you take him off the leash the instant he hesitates from bolting stuff treats in his mouth. It seems a bit primitive but he'll get the picture pretty quick.

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@nmchapma: The idea about giving him the treats while he is in my yard and unleashed sounds like a great idea. Thank you so much.

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@jnissel: Here's the answer from my friend Shirley. I've known her for years and trust her implicitly. It's VERY long, but I hated to snip any of it at all, so everyone just bear with me, please.
--------------->>this starts Shirley's recommendations:

The overall answer is that it all depends. Mostly on why this dog is bolting and exactly what they mean by the term “bolting.”

If they mean he pulls on leash or lunges while on the leash, that’s a one week fix for someone with educated hands or a four week fix for confirmed pullers (humans who do not have educated hands). The big problem with leash pulling or lungeing is that it takes two to create the problem: a dog that tries it and a human who pulls back like they think that dog’s neck is made of solid rubber. It is very easy to teach a dog not to pull but it is quite difficult to teach humans not to pull.

cont'd

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Personally, I think if I could walk along behind every human who was a leash puller and smack them on the back every time they pulled, within three days human leash pulling would never be a problem again (I smack like I mean business). Sadly, no one volunteers and I couldn’t do it anyway.

I do have a short series of lessons on how to teach a dog to walk nicely on leash for someone who knows how to use a clicker and cookies:

http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/LLW/

If by bolting they mean this dog slips the collar and takes off at a high rate of speed, there’s a quick temporary fix and a longer permanent fix. The quick temporary fix is to get a martingale or limited slip collar, which will keep him from being able to back out of the collar:

http://www.whitepineoutfitters.com/catalog_page.cfm?queries_index=index10&title_bar=SOFT%20SLIP%3Csup%3Etm%3C%2Fsup%3E%20COLLARS&ProductSubCodeID=113&ProductCode=1

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or

http://tinyurl.com/572s2

The nice thing about these collars is that they prevent backing out and the nylon web is so soft, it will not break coat. You can even get a matching leash to pamper your hands.

Another quick but temporary fix for a dog that slips the collar and runs off is to walk him in a harness. Most dogs that are not Dachshunds find a well fitted harness almost impossible to wiggle out of.

The longer permanent fix is to teach this dog that sticking with the human is a terrific idea. I would start with just handing this dog a cookie at short but random intervals, anywhere from 1 to 5 steps. Try not to fall into a pattern, try to keep the dog wondering when the next cookie will appear and give him a good reason to keep a close eye on the human.

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Once the dog has figured out that the human is a wonderful treat bearing companion, if the dog stops paying attention, the human starts eating the dog’s treats until the dog notices the treats are disappearing into the WRONG MOUTH! Sheer jealousy is an even better motivator for most dogs than greed. As soon as the dog notices the human eating the treats, hand the dog a treat. What the human wants to reward is the dog paying attention, so as soon as the dog is paying attention again, cookie.

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Over time and many walks, randomly add one more step to the range. So go from 1 to 5 to being, then go to 1 to 6 and then 1 to 7, etc. Keep the dog guessing as to how many steps it will be before the cookie appears.

When the dog has figured out that the human is well worth paying attention to, I’d suggest recall training:

http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/Lesson6.html

The cool thing about training is that it tends to bond the dog and human far more closely than just living together. If Howard is not the easiest dog this guy has ever had, he may well turn out to be the most closely bonded partner this guy ever had.

------------------->>> end of Shirley's suggestions

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---->>> This is @magic cave again.

I hope this helps you with Howard. By the way, the rest of her site is a treasure trove of training techniques.

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@magic cave: I just got a puppy and have a 2.5 year old dog. I'm bookmarking this discussion too, I bet these things will help with general training. Thanks for sharing!

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I wonder if this would work on my 8 year old Border Collie, "No! No! Bad Dog Maggie"?

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@barnabee: They worked on my geriatric poodle, more or less. (The "less" part of that equation is, um, owner error and lack of persistence.)

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Useful Shirley anecdote (any errors of detail are mine, not hers): There is a room in which her dogs and cat(s) are not permitted, and they all know the rules. But you know how it is: the dogs would come to the doorway and do that dog-dance thing, tapping with their feet, bouncing around excitedly, hoping for a dispensation of the rule. Shirley decided that [evil grin] all that bouncing and foot tapping probably meant they really just wanted to have their nails clipped. Each time the foot tapping began, she would cheerfully and vocally clip their front nails (or go through all the motions of clipping, if they were too short to reclip). The dogs learned very quickly to associate doorway dancing (yay!) with toenail clippings (boo!), and they modified their behavior all by themselves. Clever dogs, hmm?

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@magic cave: Step one of that leash training technique is the part no one tells you. I mean NO ONE. Everyone starts outside - where you have to fight the whole world for your dog's attention. I haven't even gotten past that first page and I'm already immensely curious about her methods and think I'll be combing that basic leash rule with the positive tone on my collar. Perhaps I can combine a love of the tone collar and reteach some manners that weren't enforced enough.

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@jnissel: Thanks for sharing more pictures of Howard. It's easy to see why he is "the one" for you.
Please let us know when you get to bring him home !

When I was 10 or 12 or something like that, I took my dog to 4h dog obedience training. It culminated in a dog show at the fair.
There were actually people of all ages in the class. It worked well. We got a second place ribbon, even though she rolled over during the "long down" {When you have the dog lay down and then give the stay command and walk away. -- on long leash} and lay there like a goof w/ her 4 paws in the air.

If you have something like that nearby, it can be fun and also good support to be with others who are training too. Maybe you and Howard will get a ribbon ;-)

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@thumperchick: So you have a dog with ADDH? Just think ... We know dogs have noses gazillions of times better than ours, and the baby steps out and is immediately intrigued with SMELLS! LOTS OF SMELLS!

Maybe a quick rap upside his haid? More cookies?

I hope you can find some useful tips on Shirley's site. She's really good and and quite a thriving "practice" when she was doing training.

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@ceagee: I've taken dogs to the classes run by folks associated with the local rescue centers, the local community college, and a couple of free-lancers. None of them were the Big Deal kind of classes; we just met weekly in a parking lot and spent 90 minutes learning basic manoevers, but they were great fun and very useful. And my experience was similar to yours: one "parent" was 82 (and in better shape than I was at 40+), a few were seven or eight, and the rest of us were in between. We had fun at it, and the dogs seemed to enjoy it too, once they spent five minutes before class butt-sniffing all the other canine students. No dog show afterward, though; the dogs got graduation certificates and a treat.

I love the mind's-eye image of your dog, four feet up.

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@magic cave: WOW! I mean WOW! That took a lot of work for you to post of all that. I am in your debt for for it. Thank you. I have read some of it and bookmarked the links in the posts as well.

Unfortunately I was off-line because of a power outage that lasted almost 5 hours. I have a lot of work to do in catching up with the work I needed to do today (I think that sentence makes sense.) so I won't have a chance to really read it until tomorrow.

I do want to give a Howard Update... I spoke with the person at the rescue group today and I asked her why Howard has been in the hospital for such a long time (over 2 months). Well, good news. The hospital is where the group boards all of their dogs. Howard is fine!

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@jnissel: I too was a little concerned about Howard's seemingly lengthy hospital stay. He's going to be really happy to get to his new home.

The posting of the training info was just a matter of cut-and-paste. I enjoy Shirley's writing style and respect her training methods too much even to consider paraphrasing and shortening it. I hope you find it useful.

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My dogs are bolters, but they bolt TO me. After his last surgery Simba bodily dragged two 200lb+ orderlies out of the back room and into the waiting room when he heard my voice. I have velcro dogs. But we have strict leash laws so my dogs are never off leash outside a fenced yard. The second day I had my foster dog Bryson we took him to a big park. When my friend opened the truck door he climbed out over my friend's shoulder, backed out of his collar and made a run for it. He was naked, had not yet been microchipped and didn't know his way home. My friend started yelling at him and I told him to shut up. I stood in the middle of the street holding back traffic with arms outstretched and gave him my best sweetie honey baby voice and he came right to me. He never bolted again, except when he heard me in the front yard he'd jump the fence to come to me. I really wanted to keep him but I was afraid he'd teach Simba to jump so we placed him with a great home out in the country.