questionsis it time to require explanations for comment…

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@hobbitss: ok, in code now, WHAT in the world did you say?

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Judging by your question, it looks like your name should be gollumss instead of hobbitss

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@lavikinga: If you mean POed it is short for Pi$$ed Off...
Tired of the delete Freak(s) removing my posts after considerable effort to follow the rules... Someone thinks Mom is a 4 letter word no matter how it is used the comment it deleted and has an old girlfriend named Cora that they now hate so the mere mention of her name causes mass deletions...

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@bonoman: That would have been Gollum with no ss and he didn't like anyone only his precious.. I happen to like people excluding delete freaks...

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Your post are obviously offensive or in violation of ToA. they don't edit or delete comments for the fun of it.

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@hobbitss: Wow, please... relax. To answer your question...no, mods should be able to do their jobs without having to explain every little thing they do. If a post was deemed to be inappropriate, it's removed, what's the problem? Votes?

Since it matters to you so much, this one time only, I'll pity up vote each and every one of your current deals, happy?

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@hobbitss: That's like saying "hobbitss is really hobbit" ...I was just keeping in tune with your formatting!

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@wickedd365: Actually I have copied a previous set of comments that were removed by a Mod who thought it was funny to rewrite them and then deleted all when I reposted the originals and attempted to invoked higher powers....

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@bonoman: That's Cool... I had to add the 2 s's on another forum Over a decade ago when I discovered that the singular and plural forms were already taken...

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Sometimes comments (or even descriptions on deals) seem to be deleted for capricious reasons. I make this comment with trepidation, having had comments deleted before that I'd considered innocuous, even innocent. This is neither, so I'll hold my breath for a bit.

I note, over here:

http://deals.woot.com/questions/comment/5c6b7097-188b-4e66-8a27-03e8006ce1ce

and here:

http://deals.woot.com/questions/comment/10203753-4269-4814-9335-8fc69dae9240

some fairly relevant information. We've seen a couple of times where someone has said they'd deleted comments. I think that staff can be just as human as the rest of us, and they are, after all, anonymous in their editing. I like most of the staff; still, I recognize that the relationship between the Deals community, and the Deals staff, is adversarial in nature (please look that up before arguing with me).

[more...you KNEW there'd be more]

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@sykotek: Not neccessary... The point is, No explanation is given for the removal of Non Offensive comments and there is no record of the comment or its removal... The voted reference means other members have seen it, read it, enjoyed it and voted for it...
So!! Why was it removed???

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I often do not comment on things where I'd really like to, and have something to say, for fear of being polarizing. This issue is so polarized already that my comments can make no difference.

Sure, there are plenty of incredibly vulgar and tasteless comments made on many of the lingerie posts. Unfortunately, those are often NOT the ones being deleted. I don't vote (mostly) lingerie deals up or down, but I've been known to vote comments on them up (or down). Not often, but it happens (I don't usually look at them to know whether there are comments or not).

@hobbitss is not wrong, in this particular case. Some people appear to be treated differently than others.

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I'd just like to point out we've been down this discussion road before:
http://deals.woot.com/deals/details/e0cf81d9-be18-41dc-9a96-cb77ac39e0a1/greek-goddess-toga-costume

As such, I'd like to reaffirm @thunderthighs comments here:
"Mom, Cora, and other such posts fall under the same modding as "first" and "This sucks."

Here are a couple places that explain our forum moderating and why posts might be deleted:
http://www.woot.com/Forums/ViewPost.aspx?PostID=274171
http://www.woot.com/Forums/ViewPost.aspx?PostID=487406";

So really, just a simple enforcement of the moderation guidelines which are applied consistently, fairly, and to all users. It's not news that these things are being modded nor is it mysterious that it continues to be the case. A useable, readable, and helpful place that everyone wants to visit will encourage everyone to post deals, which makes for a better experience overall.

Or as I like to say "community isn't an exclusive club - it's for everyone".

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@inkycatz: You're sweet, and you mean well, and I stick by every single word I just said.

Rules should also be for everyone, applied equitably.

Gah. My stomach hurts.

[Edit] I'll also point out that the people who are downvoting this question really need to think about whether everyone gets to have their say, or only some people. It's already made Popular, you're too late for that, so why do it? I can see voting down questions that are just posted to be goofy, but this is as much about the site as any other #meta question, and deserves its day in the sun, just as much.

[Edit again] I should also add that, while I do think the deletions and editing are not applied evenly, I would not want the chilling effect of seeing staff have to justify or explain it. I disagree with the solutions proposed by @hobbitss, but support strongly his right to speak about them.

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@shrdlu: Vulgar and tasteless are a slippery slope. Should we, as moderators, really impose our sense of 'tasteful'? Probably not. Helping kill useless posts? That's totally appropriate.

If you'd like to argue a case of how certain posts you may advocate are 'vulgar and tasteless' can also fall very clearly under moderation then by all means, let's make this a productive conversation thread w/o having to explain "yes, rules are for everyone, everywhere" repeatedly.

And yeah, I agree with you, sometimes mistakes happen because we're just not robots. Inkycatz2012 is still in production. I hear my botclone can stay awake much longer! =^.^=

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To expand on what @inkycatz has said....

This has been covered numerous times before. Asking for an explanation for each comment deletion is just not going to happen. We do not have the time nor manpower for that.

We do moderate the Deals side more heavily than we do the AtC side in the same way that we moderate product threads more heavily than Everything But Woot.

On the Deals side, your comment should have something to do with the product and have meaningful content. "Do not Buy" "Horrible Dealer" "Love it" don't help because they give no explanation for the comment. "Do not buy this because I've returned 3 and still didn't get one that worked." does help someone make a decision.

We're not here to kill the humor in the Deals threads but really, how many "Mom?" comments can you see before it's no longer funny? After the first couple hundred, it kinda became the "first" of the OhCheri and similar deals.

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@inkycatz: So you are saying that the Use of "Mom" and the name "Cora" go beyond Vulgar and Tasteless?? What is next?? Sister, Brother, Father etc... and any Common or uncommon personal Name??

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i'd name the first catbot "Cora Wooterson" in remembrance of this thread

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Another point I'd like to make is if we can't edit out profanity and keep the gist of the post, it will get deleted. Personal attacks and name calling will get edited or deleted. Our goal is PG-13 and suitable for work. Again, the AtC side has a bit more freedom.

Now as to posters being targeted, the poster column is the farthest column to the right for me. I rarely look at it at all and it's almost always when I'm trying to filter a comment spammer. It's all I can do to keep up with the posts across 6 sites so I generally don't pay attention to who posted the comment. If it breaks one of our guidelines, it goes.

All that said, there will be times that we'll let a conversation go off topic in a Deal thread if it seems appropriate or just flat out unavoidable (such as the Toga deal). That happens but it's not the norm.

In summary, we moderate Deals the same way we do any of the other Woot sites.

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@hobbitss: I clearly believe @shrdlu was referring to something else, and that is a constructive discussion I am wholeheartedly willing to continue (the one regarding taste/morals/value judgements vs posts clearly and previously deemed within the same category as "first" and other posts of a similar style).

I don't eat modbait, for future reference. Bad for the digestive system, so no need to try to put some out. :)

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@thunderthighs: Your talking to a former Mod... I know what can and can't be done given the tools and TRAINING...

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This is an almost word for word replacement for the comment I left many hours ago that some delete freak removed... Explain what is wrong with this Comment that would require it's deletion!!!

Quote
Ah yes... The Deal of the day... Very Nice...

Home page has A nice little Red Bikini modeled by Cora...
End

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@hobbitss: You've made it well known that you have a history in modding. That's great. However, you are working within Woot's guidelines. We have the tools. We have the training. We are following the guidelines as given to us and you. You can choose to follow the guidelines or not. It's really that easy.

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@thunderthighs: Thank you for remembering...
So how did I break the rules???
See the quote above...

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@hobbitss: One thing to keep in mind is comments will help push an item to Popular and the mods do certain things to manipulate what appears on the Popular tab. Deleting comments is one of these things, adding weighted tags (like sexy) is another.

Not trying to imply that to "manipulate" is sinister. They are doing what they're told.

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@ohcheri: Huh, didn't know that. Keep in mind that the community mods (@inkycatz and I) do not work on the Deals team so we're not told these things. So our modding has NOTHING to do with whether or not a deal goes popular.

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@hobbitss: No, I can figure out PO'd but at first glance I thought you meant "pooed." I will admit being as thick as a pudding about the "cora" reference and always got a chuckle out of Matthew's "Mom?" comments. In fact, I began to miss them when he stopped.

I agree with @thunderthighs that while it would be nice to know why you've modded, it would be very time consuming. I've had relatively harmless comments modded into space as they didn't seem to fit the flow of the thread, but comments that followed & echoed my sentiments were allowed to remain. Most aggravating. Perhaps mods changed in mid-stream.

Comments like "your deal sucks" or "you're a 'tard" maybe should be disappeared. Comments that simply disagree with an opinion or a policy should be allowed even if the pointy sticks come out. Healthy arguing is good. It gets the blood up and sometimes even produces productive changes.

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@thunderthighs: We have a responsibility to follow the rules and you have a responsibility to enforce them...
I fully understand that the singular declarations of MOM or Cora constitute a violation similar to "First" as in first post... I do not contest that...
What I do expect and also believe should be provided is an explanation of how my comment breaks that rule by discussing the deal posted and then referencing a product on the home page of the referenced Site...

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@hobbitss: Sigh. Stop now. You have been provided the insight that you asked for. I wholeheartedly support the anonymity of those doing the moderation, EVEN IF I DISAGREE WITH SOMETHING THEY'VE MODERATED. It is impossible to do this if they have to provide you with an account, each and every time they do it. In addition, there's nothing that gives you that right on any set of public forums that I know of.

I agree that sometimes things are unfair. I agree that it seems (please note that I said SEEMS) to be unevenly applied. On the other hand, when you are known to do things that Deals finds undesirable, you should expect to be observed more closely. I would bet actual $$$ that I get watched more closely when it's early in the AM (and this is good), since it is possible that I will break my self-imposed rule about commenting before adequate coffee. I've gone back to delete something I regretted, only to have it deleted before I could (and thank you to the deleter).

[More]

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@hobbitss: You can keep at this, insisting that it change, no matter how many times you are told it will not change, or you can go off and determine that you need to make the effort to make constructive comments on the lingerie deals, and be done with it.

Things change. Let it go.

I used to say this all the time, but haven't for a while:

It's their site. They make the rules. That's just the way it is. You want to make the rules, make your own forum, and then you can.

Life's not fair. It just is.

[Edit] I almost forgot. @inkycatz, please consider asking others who've worked there longer. It's not a conversation I want to have right now. Nothing personal, you've always been nice to me, I just don't think it would be productive. If you really feel the need, you could always take it to PM, or send me an email. You're staff, email should work. Please note that I do NOT have notify if mentioned turned on, nor will I, any time soon.

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@shrdlu: The problem is, I made a constructive comment and it was deleted...

I also have a character flaw.. If I see something wrong I say something...
And if something wrong is done to me I stand up and make sure everyone is aware... Make that more than one character flaw...

Oh yeah, I'm the most stubborn person I know...

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@inkycatz:
You said this is just a simple enforcement of the moderation guidelines which are applied consistently, fairly, and to all users. Yet several members have posted with reservations both here and in several other threads that that is not the case.. The members see enforcement as inconsistant, unfair and apparently targeted but must live with these conditions or suffer the consequences... thunderthighs states that the mods have the training and the tools but if enforcement is in fact inconsistant, unfair and targeted then that can not be entirely true... So what is needed more training and/or controls??
In my day Mods, did not have deletion tools, they had removal tools, removed posts were stored and an e-mail was sent explaining each removal... All mod actions were stored and reviewable... We were provided with cookie cutter e-mail messages into which we could copy the offending post but I prefered hand typed individual messages they were more effective...
Continued>

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I did thousands of them over the years and would occasionally (well rarely) get a thank you note...

Additionally Mods were Neutral Parties while working, another thing that doesn't seem to be enforced here both from member concerns and some targeted down voting that has occured in this thread and else where... Mods are the law enforcement of their domain and should work to a higher standard and as such they should be held to a higher standard... It is the nature of the job... And yeah, I agree with you, sometimes mistakes happen because you're not just robots. But Humans have the ability to say they have made a mistake or maybe even an "I'm sorry.."

Can any of this be done here?? Don't know..
Should it be done?? Well, you already know my thoughts......

@thunderthighs:
The last time our paths crossed you messed up big time, deleted and ran for cover... Not good...

Continued>

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I was going to invoke the big guy, keep him in touch with action in the trenches, but I don't think it is needed... If he really is the big guy he will know soon enough if not already...

The question is what will he do??

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@hobbitss: I think you might have a touch of the crazies, they (the mods) have answered your question, but you refuse to accept the answer.

The example you gave added nothing useful, I'm not sure how you think "oh the deal of the day" would help anyone decide to buy or not, had you said "oh this is a great deal it's $5 more at (insert name here) then tagged on your cora comment it might have stayed. Have a great day, mods delete this if you want... ;)

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@jeus: Possibly... But you have taken the comment out of context which changes its meaning... Also the mods did not answer my question, if you reread the thread you will notice they addressed other poster's comments, the fact that I was mod long a go in a far off land and a post that was labeled Modbaiting but that they left up... Nowhere is there an explanation why my one previous post was deleted... Nor do I expect that there will be one...