questionswhy is there a drop in voting of community…

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The other side of Woot has driven them all away.

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most of them are ubiquitous{SP?}.

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All the changes Woot! has made the Old Guard unhappy and jumping ship at an alarming rate. While there are new users, they have not caught on to our idea of a deal (something at a really good price you can not find anywhere else cheaper). There are more spammers, less deals, less wooters wooting wonderful deals. All this culminates to fewer votes.

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@pyxientx: Sorry for not realizing this but what changes are you talking about?

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@pyxientx: There's that, and there's also the fact that there haven't been any truly good deals in a long time.

Example - Chili's has more or less the same promotion almost every day of the year. Their deals are now consistently making the front page.

I don't think we'll see much activity again until fall or maybe not even until shortly before Black Friday. The desperation that led to the great deals of the last couple years before is gone, and now retailers are just settling for having higher prices and fewer sales.

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Sort of along this same line - does it appear to anyone else that deals are going "popular" with fewer votes the last week or so? Or is it directly related to total users online?

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@plunge: You joined in 2004 and you haven't noticed any changes?

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I rarely bother more than a glance at the deals side any more. There's so rarely anything there that appeals to me. I used to look every day, mostly for free fast food deals, and ended up seeing other stuff along the way that appealed to me. But they've exiled all the free stuff from the popular tab and pretty much eliminated any drive I had to look every day. As @omnichad said, it will probably pick up as we near gift-giving holidays and people are actively shopping, actively seeking out deals, and there are more deals to be had.

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@moondrake: The end of the popular free deal was a sad day indeed. I don't bother searching for it because that requires an active move to monitor a second deals page.

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@plunge: Yeah, what they said.

But seriously... a lot of wooters were pissed at the redesign, all the new pages taking it away from a deal a day, the items they are now selling are not exactly a deal as you can find the item at the same or lower price elsewhere, lack of BOC, woot-offs being rather mediocre, no coupons, Woot becoming an Amazon wannabe without the free shipping and good prices, most of the staff we knew and loved being let go, and any other rant I forgot. But MOST of all, not being the zany and wacky Woot we were used to. I think we all could have dealt with it better if they had stayed with the staples like BOC's and deals.woot coupons. Wacky freebies showing up at the hard-core wooters doors "just because" is missed and makes them think this is just another site, when previously it had been home. The excitement for most is gone. It was all the little things that went away to make people sit up and take notice, and ultimately, leave.

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@omnichad: Yes, between the elimination of the free deals and the inclusion of a large percentage of RIP'd deals on the popular tab (7 on the first page at the moment) edging out active deals, I don't feel like reading that page is a good use of my time.

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@iggz: I check stuff out now and then to find a good deal. I started getting back into it last fall. Kind of miss the old woot from a few years ago, before they had so many other categories.

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@moondrake: Just tried searching for free deals by tag. It doesn't really work. Forgot that. You can't sort by popularity - not even the new popularity algorithm. It's either by date (recent crap deals) or by most votes (ancient expired deals).

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@omnichad: I agree to an extent. The economy is getting better for the most part, and sales are dwindling, but there are good ones out there. However, the demographic of sales are different, and the things posted are not what we are used to nor what we want. I have an inbox full of sales, but what I am looking for isn't in there, much to my DH happiness. For instance, a PS3 500gb at Sony with Assassin's Creed III is just $299. Last year that would have been AWESOME. This year everyone is looking at the PS4 and new XBox. Prices have gone up, and when sales are posted at higher than we could get them just a couple of months ago at regular pricing, it doesn't seem a deal.
Plus, some of my wants have changed, too. I think I have enough electronics for now, and am stocking my climbing pack and new RV, and also finishing up hardscaping my backyard . There is not a lot of call for what I am looking to purchase, and nearly every outdoor item is sold out before I can get to it when posted

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@omnichad: And by the time many of the deals reach the front page of the popular tab, they have already expired or sold out. I can't tell you how many times one of my posts has hit the front page and I've been flooded with comments complaining that the price is showing up higher when they try to buy it, or the shipping is not free as posted, or the coupon code doesn't work, etc. When I investigate it's always because it's a deal I posted a day or two or even three days earlier and was a deal of THAT day. Since a lot of people don't vote beyond the first page or two, a lot of really great deals don't get many upvotes because they have expired by the time most voters see them.

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@moondrake: @omnichad: I am using the "free tracker" that @lichme has on his Woot Stalker. (Look under trackers, then Woot). It's a good setup; makes finding free stuff easy. Thanks @lichme!

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@belyndag: What's the vote count now to make a deal popular?

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@plunge: I saw a deal yesterday go popular with 5 votes. But it depends on how the mods tag it. For example, #clothing requires more votes to go popular.

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@plunge: There's an RIP'd deal with 7 votes for 20% off an ITunes Card from EBay on the popular page right now. But other than a lingerie deal from @ocheri and a deal for a free sample, neither of which are eligible for the popular page I understand, the new tab is mostly a wasteland of one or two upvote (or downvote) items.

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@pyxientx: You said "they have not caught on to our idea of a deal (something at a really good price you can not find anywhere else cheaper). There are more spammers, less deals, less wooters wooting wonderful deals." - You nailed it!

I have noticed such an increase in crappy "deals" lately. Nothing interestes me, and I do not vote. Really losing interest in this whole game.

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Apathy. Many have voiced my feelings. Few, if any, really good bargains. Constant changes. i.e., Free deals are not welcomed. Nor are lingerie/sexy deals. Most sponsored deals are 'yawners.'

The lack of interest in, and votes for all deals reflect how the community views them. This results in a lack of traffic. No traffic; sponsors will reconsider paying for the exposure. (In reality: Lack of it.)

Reminds me of an old adage: "...Cutting off your nose to spite your face.'

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The reason there are less votes is the same reason why I am consistently in the top 15 on the leaderboard lately. A lot of the most dedicated wooters have stopped visiting this site over the past few months. And not only are they not here voting, they're also not here posting great deals - the kind that would generate a ton of positive votes - anymore.

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I think Woot's recent "redesign" of how the deals section is operated is probably the main culprit of less votes. Having RIPed deals on the front page means less deals for people to vote on without digging. Though I completely agree that many old time users are jumping ship/not as active as before.

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@plunge: I saw a vote go popular with a net vote of 0 the other day! I don't think it's just the voting that they count, it must include comments and clicks, as well. And it appears that downvotes might be counting as heavily as upvotes!

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I agree with above but also we need to factor in the time of year. Late spring/Summer = less traffic

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Don't you miss being able to summon jumbo and have him come in here and read all of these comments and tell us they are looking into it, all told? At least you felt like someone was listening and maybe even cared. Now it's just us whining to each other. Because they don't care. And that should explain a lot about the drop in activity.

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@pitamuffin: I think there's still a few of the old guard left that do care but they're probably overwhelmed doing more work with less staff. I don't think there was a memo that went out that said, "Stop paying attention to the people at deals because X." I know when I get asked to take on the workload from three or four different people who are not around any longer it tends to bog down my productivity levels. But I can certainly sympathize with your feelings.

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@belyndag: I asked a question a while back about why some deals with fewer votes were on the popular page and others with more were not. I was told that they do count click-throughs in determining popularity. Which I thought was dumb, as many of those click throughs may be to post a negative comment on a bad deal, to read the negative comments on a bad deal, to see what the OP meant by a badly worded deal, or any number of other factors that should not contribute to its popularity rating.

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@zuiquan: Yeah, I really didn't mean to include the mods that we know and love in the "they don't care" rant. That was directed at new owners/decision makers, who have come in and instituted the changes around here. Changes that our dear mods have to live with as well.

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It's better to just pretend that things are working, rather than understanding that the name next to a deal has way more to do with its votes than the actual content, quality, and price. The only way you can keep that charade up is to not vote on things.

It's a good system, really.

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@lotsofgoats: You've commented more than once that the name of poster seems to count for more votes than what the deal itself is. I'm not sure what you mean, but reading that literally I'd not only agree with you but add that it's a vital point in my voting.

For instance, if I see a deal posted by @belyndag, @ceagee, or any of half a dozen other folks I know it's going to be a good deal and I routinely up-vote it. @belyndag and I have chatted several times about how we check out a deal before we post it, and her research and judgment are great. I've checked out dozens of deals by other regulars, and I know whose posts are reliable for their dealitudeness.

Newcomers? I check out their site and the deal before I vote. If I'm rushed or lazy, I don't check them out, so I don't bother voting. And I've almost stopped down-voting the really egregious semi-spammers, since nobody seems to pay attention anyway.

Does that fit with your comments?

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If you're not checking that a deal is actually a deal (i.e. opening it up, finding it on other sites, etc.) before upvoting or downvoting, then I happen to think that you're the problem with deals.woot.

And there's tons of that going on in fights for the oh-so-lucrative first page.

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Do you all bother to vote for a deal which has already made the popular page? What's the point, it's already popular? All you do is push someone else further up the Leaderboard. This whole process is getting on my nerves!

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@hot72chev: I only look at the first page of popular, as that is what comes up first, then go to the fresh tab, but I find myself going to the fresh tab fewer and fewer times as this goes on. I will vote on a deal on the popular page if it is really good, even if I didn't see it on the fresh tab, but it HAS to be good. I have never voted just because all the popular kids did.

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@magic cave: Thanks for the kind comment. I miss a few things, but I at least TRY to price compare before I post something, and I try to post a link to the best alternate price. And I agree that some contributors have shown me through their past postings that their deals are reliable, just as some folks have shown that they are merely shills or socks.

@lotsofgoats: I suppose in a perfect world I would open each deal and check it out, including price comparison and reading reviews, before I vote for or against it, but I rarely have that kind of time. If it's something I have familiarity with or something I think is new or unique, or a contributor/site known to be reliable, why bother?

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@pitamuffin: We're still listening! In fact, I've pulled a number of things out of this thread already to pass on in a report on up the chain. We definitely appreciate all the feedback, especially since you guys have a fresh perspective based on actually using the site everyday.

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@hot72chev: The point [of voting for a deal that is already popular] for me is that as the poster of a deal, I'm understandably pleased when the vote count soars. On the other hand, I'm just not so invested in my own scores that I refuse to vote for a popular deal. I figure that poster will get the same pleasure watching votes climb on her deal as I do on mine.

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I noticed a severe drop off after the last woot off. It's been declining for quite some time (as has been pointed out elsewhere, on the forums), but the decline became dramatic recently. I think a significant point is that many people simply seem to have worn out with it all, and moved on to other venues and distractions.

I note that many people who are here now, and who have gained black triangles, seem unaware that it's now very simple to gain (I gently point out that, with almost zero useful activity, mine is still black). For a time, the number of people with a black triangle was higher than it is now, but the percentage was about the same.

90-100 (388)
80-89 (388)
50-79 (1,168)
40-49 (2,368)
30-39 (4,314)
20-29 (4,327)
1-19 (8,247)
0 (101,900)

Those are the current numbers (I just did a copy paste). Now, remember that the last line (0 (101,900)) has all people with some activity here, but less than 1.0; it does not include those with no activity.

[Continued]

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[Page 2]
Why is this interesting?

It's interesting because the last time I paid attention, the 90-100 slot had 422 members. I don't remember what the 0 slot held, but I remember that it was higher. I suppose I could go looking for my notes, but I don't have the time right now.

There are many reasons for the drop in traffic, including that ever-elusive element, popularity. Woot/Deals isn't the "new" thing any more. There's a dozen and a half sites similar, and it's not differentiated enough on its own. Do those of us who've been around for a long time think of it as different? Sure. It's just that it depends on attracting new people, and keeping the old as well. Neither has been done well, of late.

I have my own opinions, voiced multiple times, about how to keep the older members. No telling whether or not I was right, because it's too late for most of it. I am not nearly as active as I used to be, either.

[Continued]

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[Page 3] Just like the old days, you know? I think my worst was five pages. Anyway, back to the point.

I was bemused to see such complaining over the loss of $5 all day shipping, but I realize that for many, it was all they knew. The service has gone down hill (yes, it has, my friends, and I'm not sure how to fix it). Saddest of all is something that certainly seemed like a good idea at the time, and if there's any takeaway in what I'm saying here, it's this:

Change the immediate creation of shipping labels to at least the next day. I would say that it's caused far more problems than any financial savings, and it loses customer. These are people that tell others not to come here; often, woot is new to them. What has happened is that this new policy makes it almost impossible to cancel an order, or change a mistake in a shipping address, or to rectify any problem.

[Continued]

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[Page 4] To see a recommendation for a solution to a bad shipping address be "Well, when it gets there, just tell the people there now to refuse it, then it'll get shipped back to us, then we can send it to you." I've lost count of the number of times I've seen that particular line on the forums. This isn't the woot that I knew, and it's unkind, and bad business as well.

I see some staff members spread so thin that I get sad over it. I'm pretty sure they're not getting paid more.

There's a couple of other issues too (yeah, I'm not through). One of them is that it used to be spammy kinds of deals, or clear violations (such as counterfeit items) disappeared sometimes before I could tattle on them. Now? Tattling doesn't make any difference. I seldom bother, unless it's blatant profanity, or something similar, where I know there's a possibility it'll get acted upon.

I'd like to know what happened to the improvements. Feh. Enough for now. I have other fish to fry (so to speak).

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@magic cave: Thank you for your kind words. I try !

Regarding the original Q: I think it's mixed soup. Many reasons --- that have been posted, with some "ingredients" bigger than others.

Something I haven't seen posted, it seems a lot of companies have started sending out "exclusive deals" click through only or limited use codes. I think they are trying to get more people to sign up ? But why they would not want the deals shared and have more customers is beyond me.

For me, summer is here and I'm not snowed in. More time enjoying the good weather, less time on the computer.

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@belyndag: Then the following question is, "If you don't care, why would you expect anyone else to?"

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@shrdlu: I agree with the black triangles. I am one and have only posted 2-3 deals and most were during memes, hardly ever tattle, and asked about the same amount of questions. Previously I alternated between green and purple. Of course I hover at 90%, but I spend less time on Woot then ever before.

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@lotsofgoats: I just re-read my comment you seem to be responding to and my only question is, "Huh?"

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@belyndag: In regards to the context of the thread itself, rather than our conversation in particular. If people care more about black triangles (and I very clearly prove how useless they are :D) than they do about deal content, then I don't particularly think we can complain all that much when voting goes down the toilet.

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(i.e. read it more as "we" rather than "you")

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@lotsofgoats: LOL! I guess I was trying to think too hard. I am definitely out of practice!