questionsremember that time we had a chat tab? should we…

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I'm fairly new. What is a chat tab and how does it work. (25 words or less, will do).

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Oft heard statement goes here.

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When i first came to woot it was hilarious seeing some of the things people posted, but it seemed over time especially after merging with amazon that comments began to be deleted and censored more. Part of the fun in reading the forms was to read the funny and sometimes naughty comments people made. Why did this come about and is there any way to incorporate it again or develop a area where it is not censored?

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I don't remember the chat tab (I am still relatively new here, with only about six months of activity).

Do you mean chat as in IRC or something else?

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We're doing this again? It's very distressing that the original discussion about the chat tab resulted in the departure of or self-limited participation by a number of respected, well-liked posters here. @snapster knows to whom I refer.

I liked and supported the chat tab, since it likely would have segregated non-deal discussion to a more free-wheeling area.

I truly dislike the current algorithm that rewards the mere asking of questions, finding that it has encouraged inane questions that clutter up the landscape and make it very difficult to find questions and responses that pertain to deals and merchandise.

(Inanity can be fun and entertaining and most of us indulge in it, but there are occasions in which asking for and finding concrete, specific, deal-oriented information is important.)

Give us a chat tab!

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CEO lightheartedly trolling the deals peeps? This peon lol'd.

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@agingdragqueen: He's just asking a question because he needs the reputation boost.

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@agingdragqueen: Is that what he was doing? Is that what you are doing?

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@durkzilla: I laughed so hard at that. Thank you, take all my upvotes.

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I was here before the chat tab, during the chat tab upheaval, for the chat tab, and finally, for the chat tab removal. I wasn't a beta tester like shrdlu, catbertthegreat, hobbit, lavikinga, glindagw, mtrlgrl, or jockovonred, but I can safely say that I feel the quality of the questions has gone way downhill.

And yes, I do blame it on the fact that asking questions has become such a large part of the reputation calculations (I still believe answering a deal related question is worthy of reputation while asking a question, whether it is deal related or fluff, is not).

People are asking the SAME questions over and over just to boost their reputations.

I think we enjoyed Random Word Day and the community yarn, but we didn't do them every day.

Deal questions are being overlooked due to the flood of fluff.

Please change the algorithm or make fluff not count.

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Unofficial ballot:

[ x ] Add chat tab to deals.woot community section.

[ ] Continue existence in the darkest depths of chaos, where you are likely to be eaten by a grue.

[ ] Bacon zombies. Everything can be solved with more bacon zombies.

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Sometimes around here, I feel like a child sitting at the adults' dinner table. I will probably never be a black triangle. I'm all right with that, but two questions have been asked about the chat tab and have not been answered.

I've looked back at former conversations and those seem to involve people who used the chat tab and were upset with this new system. It didn't help to explain the differences to me.

So give a n00b a break, can you PLEASE explain what the old chat tab was and why it is different than the "Ask the Community"?

I thank you in advance. And please pass the jell-o.

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@katblue @baqui63 @barnabee: The chat tab. Simply, another tab on the Ask The Community side (just like: top, fresh, and your name). That filtered all questions tagged as "Chat" to that tab automatically (This question would be under the chat tab, not fresh because of it's tag).

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@magic cave: yeah, i will admit I've posted questions when I couldnt find deals to keep my rating up...
Could we have the ask the community be only for deals, but then have a woot forums that could include a general area but does not affect rankings?

edit: and also limit how much questions affect rankings

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@barnabee: Sorry, we're having trouble hearing you through our bitterness.

The chat tab was basically the same thing that Ask the Community is now in regard to location and concept. A person can post something and people can respond. The major differences are that before, it didn't have to be a question and you didn't have to post to improve your reputation. Some of us were bitter for different reasons, some because of the changes themselves, others because of the way the changes were implemented, others because of both. Some, like @shrdlu have always just been bitter.

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@icemanforlife: I never spent much time on deals.woot before amazon took over, but that's actually why I stopped spending time on the normal woot site. Too many comments get deleted for frivolous reasons now.

Here it seems like it's just a self-policing community with votes. Better system imo.

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@thepenrod: @duckcake: Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

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I think the problem here is that the new algorithms have failed to regulate the topicality.

The folks asking the inane questions for reputation boosts don't understand what they're doing, just that they are told by the dashboard to ask questions to improve their score.

There's no immediate impact on the score, so they don't see the effect of a massive downvote. They may be new here or simply haven't bothered to try and decipher the mysterious reputation system. Heck, I've been here a while now and I still don't understand it entirely.

[Continued]

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As long as the dashboard tells people to ask questions to improve their scores there will be garbage questions in Ask the Community. Creating a Chat tab for this garbage will do nothing to improve the situation because the people who don't get it will continue to not get it.

Stop awarding reputation points for asking questions. Please.

If there's no reward for asking a question then hopefully the only questions will be the ones where someone actually wants an answer.

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@thepenrod: I'd answer, and provide links as to why Matt should (but does not) have shame at this. You can't rush in to a flock of baby chicks, and stomp them all bloody, and then bemoan the fact that so few chickens seem to grow to maturity.

The rules on Deals have changed so often that I no longer try to keep up with it. I don't care much, either, although now and then I have pity for people who are asking genuine questions that need honest answers, and they either get downvoted, or ignored (often both).

The astonishing RUDENESS of some of what went on then has never left me. While there are specific staff members that I like, I'm cautious of each and every one of them, even when I have off line conversations, since I don't feel they can be trusted. This makes me sadder than I can say.

I'd say more, but I'm going to quit while I'm ahead.

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@duckcake: I just need to point out, briefly, that the #chat tag and tab were originally designed to marginalize some questions, and not others, and that, during that time, no question tagged as #chat was permitted to become popular (another thing that's been tossed out, like the baby with the bathwater, more's the pity). This means that ALL questions tagged in that way became invisible to posterity.

[Gah. I said I wasn't going to say more, and now here I am, saying it. Damn your eyes, @thepenrod, for dragging this sadness back up. I am giving myself a time out.]

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@shrdlu: Yeah, but I stand by my remark that you've always been bitter. :) It's funny, I saw a post of yours on the Internet Archive from the days of the public opening of deals.woot. I think you've actually mellowed some.

Also, Is that an intentional Young Frankenstein reference? 100 internet points to you if so.

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There is already a place to chat, play games, give opinions, have fun in general, and interact with really, really wonderful people over on woot. There is no need for chat here as I see it. Having said that, I sort of mini-derailed something yesterday because I was so happy to see a poster whom I love (perk) and wanted to just catch up on a couple of things. I asked, she answered, and that was it. However, generally speaking, no. What am I missing where I think what I am about to type is actually a good idea - gonna get downvoted for this I am sure - but why do we not do away with "reputation" altogether? That is not to say that people cannot be rewarded for ideas, contributions, loyalty, etc. The triangle thing has gotten pretty much out of control, although I must say that the people at the top of the ranking deserve to be based on their contributions for the most part. Why was the quality post left for only woot. Could be used here for that purpose.

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I was actually going to answer in the affirmative to this question but then I started thinking and realized that I was confused. That's why I asked this question - http://deals.woot.com/questions/details/5934806e-0aac-441e-86af-06c44dc78715/do-you-remember-that-time-before-we-had-the-chat-tab#ed7358f5-48df-41ca-a8a3-90b7a8a91446

Fortunately, some of the even longer time members than myself helped me to remember that it was indeed the Chat Tab that began The Dark Period.

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@klozitshoper: Because it's a completely different community. This has actually been discussed in length. I'm too lazy to look up links for you, though.

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YES CHAT TAB!!!!

Cool Chit Chat Chant Chap!

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I'm not too fond of questions not counting towards reputation. I don't really care that it helps someone's reputation or not, but it does give an incentive for people interact with the community. Other than the fantastic deals I've found because of this site, I've gotten answers to questions I never knew I wanted to know the answers to. Basically, I feel that if you get rid of the incentive, the "community" aspect of deals.woot will suffer as a consequence. Plus, not having questions help with reputation means that people will have to turn to posting crappy deals to try and save face.

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@shrdlu: I came here just about the time that the "great change" took effect. I know that there were many upset people and some were so upset that they left. Some are still upset and yes, bitter.

Now keep in mind, that I am NOT a kid. I'm probably close to your age, so I have seen a lot and I now know just a bit less than I actually think I do. Changes do not always work, but without change, how would we ever make any gains? However, I think @snapster has taken too lightly, how people feel about the way the change to the questions area has worked out. I think it needs a few tweaks here and there. And maybe that will happen. Or maybe he is sitting back, laughing at us.

So, let's see what happens. It doesn't do any good to be sad--or bitter.

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@thepenrod: I have been here awhile and know whatof you speak. I realize that some people don't go there, won't go there, have never been there, don't like it there. But, for those of us who participate there, it is a lot more kind and gentle so to speak. In no way did I even suggest you look up links for me. However, thanks for the reminder of how polarized things can get.

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We need to spam the questions tab to keep our rep up and are encouraged to do so by wonderful @jumbowoot. However, this does have the nasty side affect of having a lot of questions to trudge through. If that were separated partially into the chat tab I'd be for it, though I am blissfully unaware of the original drama revolving around the chat tab.

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Thanks all for participating.

I should clarify that I was not a participant in the concept or implementation of the prior chat tab and I was a strong proponent after the fact for it's removal. However, I bring it up again for the fact that the issue has become one with more well-rounded understanding to the direction we were headed (a very chatty Questions section) with many calling for change. Including a "no change" opinion, here's an attempt to further clarify discussion:

1. Remove all incentives to add Questions. Hope that the attention will remain on the question area in general to answer non-fluff questions. Hope that fluff questions are more easily downvoted away.
2. Reintroduce the chat tab and try to moderate the inclusion of chat tags to force chatty looking questions there. Hope chat tab relegated questions are actually found.
3. Moderate away (delete) Chatty Questions
4. Status quo - let the community self-regulate topicality while encouraging robust participation.

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i remember the chat tab got no love. you were branded with the #chat hashtag if your question was even remotely not about products. your questions were banished away to the chat tab and no one would ever see it. they didn't show up when looking at the popular deals at the time. so to get random deals.woot perusers to see it and contribute was very difficult. you'd have to go to Ask the Community and click away from the popular questions to the chat tab. if you didn't know it existed, like a lot of newer folks, you'd never know. also what questions got banished away were at the whim of who knows what guidelines. i had a lot of "why did that get marked as #chat and that didn't?" questions myself

now at least a question can be seen from the main deals.woot page on "top" if it's 1 of the 3 top-rated, or on the main "fresh" deals.woot page if you're 1 of the 3 latest questions posted. so you can get those stragglers involved if it piques their interest

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@snapster: Option 1, please.

But while you remove the incentive to ask questions, increase the reward to those who respond with useful answers (as scored by the current voting system). That would encourage me to participate. And it would encourage me to ask questions of the community because I know I'm more likely to have my real question seen and give someone who actually knows the answer an incentive to post it.

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@snapster: I choose option one. Long before there was reputation, and with absolutely no expectation of any reward, monetary or other, there were plenty of helpful people here to answer questions. I would prefer to see reputation disappear. It long ago lost any meaning, and has now set up a competition that is the opposite of community building.

The least you could do was to rename reputation as Popularity, since that's all it is. I have a reputation in real life. I am known for my honesty, for example. I value this reputation. Currently, my "reputation" on Deals stands at 91+, but it is meaningless. It says nothing about whether you may trust a deal I post, or a comment I make.

I just can't stop being sad about it.

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Moderate away which will then better reflect the direction deals wishes to take. The way it is, it is a free-for-all with very polarizing effects. I keep returning to the premise I put forth previously, it is YOUR company and what you want for it is paramount. I honestly have to say that I strongly believe that you do know what you want to see and what effect there will be, and I have to wonder if we are being somewhat toyed with?

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@snapster: I'm all for #1 that would be fantastic!
I wasn't here for the Chat tab but it sounds nice.

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Let's go with option 1.

Option 2 would be my second choice, but would still prefer option 1.

Option 3 would drive many people away because there is no way to know why the question was deleted.

Option 4 would be fine too. But I would rather something be done. Preferably do away with the add questions incentive.

FYI, @snapster, I'm not totally against people adding questions. Perhaps rewarding people at some future point for asking questions. Not asking for physical gifts, like is it possible for staff to add rep to a specific user?

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Option #1

Option #3 will lack CONSISTENCY etc...

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I vote for option 1.

As a side note, in response to @shrdlu: I agree that now you can't trust someone or know that their deal is good because of their black triangle. I used to feel like I could (B.C., possibly before the black % change). People were definitely more helpful as well. I miss it.

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@snapster: I'm also with the option #1 group.

I also liked the idea stated above for rewarding rep points for answering questions, and not at all for asking them. That promotes only asking questions someone actually cares about, and rewards people for good answers (assuming their answer is good and gets upvoted).

But all in all, I'll take removing questions from rep all together if that's what it takes. So again, I says option #1.

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Option 1.
I'm still having a hard time with this one. I personally like seeing silly questions and fun answers. If a chat tab allows this to continue I'm all for it...I admit I'm at fault for adding chatty questions but it's because I like my "special" black triangle. So if that incentive was removed I know I wouldn't do it anymore but I would miss being able to ask random questions to such a great community.

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I vote option 1 as well.

I think most of the community already moderates itself pretty darn well. Removing questions can cause problems because the value of the question is subjective.

Removing the incentive to ask questions for reputation will eventually lead to fewer but more meaningful questions, IMO.

Thanks for asking!

(How's your reputation doing? I think you need to add more deals.)

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Forgive me, but I have a hellish headache and I'm trying to read through all of these very valid opinions without much success (stoopid airplane traveling germs). All good points so far.

@Snapster: having given the Chat Tab a try with varying amounts of success, have you considered a stricter specific "Deals Only Tab," and then maybe a "crap" tab with sub tabs of "fresh" and not so fresh? Not necessarily call it "crap," but maybe sort it out closer to the Woot way over on the community forums?
What fits under that DOT tab would of course be up to TPTB, but you get the general idea. It's either DIRECTLY deals-centric, like specific help in posting deals, alerts to wrenches in the system & inner workings(and not the "whar's mah order/rep building) or it's scooped off to the Land o'Crap Tab.

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I wasn't here for the previous chat tab but maybe we could incorporate it a bit more into the popular things. Have things get the chat tag added but in the popular section show both but have a toggle or something so that you see all questions, just deal questions, or just chat questions. You could do that with the fresh section as well. That way for those who don't care they could still see everything popular or fresh but for those who are only wanting to discuss deals(or not) they could easily see just those. I think at this point there is really no way to quickly distinguish what kind of questions you get. I know I personally only look through a few pages before getting bored and I probably miss some very interesting deal related questions for which I would probably like to know the answer.

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I really like option one.

I have had my fingers crossed since the inception of the meters, to have the "ask more questions" hint be removed.