questionsare any deals.wooters part of the 1% ?


Found this:

Based on the Internal Revenue Service’s 2010 database below, here’s how much the top Americans make:

Top 1%: $380,354

Top 5%: $159,619

Top 10%: $113,799

Top 25%: $67,280

Top 50%: >$33,048

I actually assumed the top 1% would be much wealthier. Based on this I would say that people who have money want to keep it and are probably careful with their money.

Then there's the top .000001 percent (super-celebrities, Bill Gates, etc.) who buy $500,000 engagement rings and 50,000 square foot getaway cabins :)


@ohcheri: dang. according to that chart if my dh and i were making both our salaries as one person we still wouldn't be in the top 50%


what's really sad is that only the top 50% PAY TAXES AT ALL.


@moosezilla: really? At the federal minimum wage of $7.25, two people working 40 hrs per week should be right around that $30,000 figure.

Since a very small percentage actually are getting minimum wage, I have to wonder what kind of jobs you & hubs have had?

Oh, and another sad fact... here in california, you could be earning that top 10% figure and still qualify for welfare/food stamps, if you throw in a few kids.

Octo-mom gets around $2,000 a month in food-aid of one sort or another for her & her 14 kids.

As for the original question about if the wealthy care about costs and saving money, in general, absolutely yes... That's how you become wealthy.
In general, lower-income people tend to buy things they can't afford and not shop around for the best deals. As an example, research has shown that approximately 80% of all coupons are redeemed by the wealthiest 20% of shoppers.


Dang, I guess y'all are against me! Jk, but in the future I WILL be part of it, most likely more. And dude above, yes they do pay taxes. What the big complaint is this. Companies have stock. Every year, a company makes so much and the stock is kinda based off of performance. Well the company pay's taxes on the income and such. So the stock may go up based on income. Those that invested have paid taxes already. All they are doing is "storing" their money in a company. If the company increases in value, so does the stock, and that money is increased. What they are pissed about is having to pay taxes on the money they make, even though the company already paid taxes on it! Sure some have some loop holes, but that is a minority of of the 1%


If you make more than $34,000 after taxes, you're already in the top 1%.

Note that that's per person in the household, so kids will probably make you a 99%er.


@kamikazeken: Assuming that both adults in a household are healthy enough to work. Try having a disabled spouse. Even a $15/hr job is still under that $33k mark.


@kamikazeken: really. because dh is disabled, and has been for a while. thus his income is based on what he was earning before he got disabled. and no, cola isn't a realistic amount-doesn't even cover cost of medicare increase.


@kamikazeken: Just not true
1. State Tax
2. City Tax
3. Sales Tax
4. Gasoline Tax
5. Lotto Tax
6. Property Tax
7. Student Loan Interest (more than credit card dept in the USA)
8. Utility Taxes (Gas, water, phone, etc.)
9. Tax added to Tobacco Products.
10. Tax added to Alcoholic Beverages
11. Price Fixings on Beef and Dairy Products to Subsidize Farmers

The list is endless


Oh yeah, and when "poor people" go to the ER because they don't have Insurance. There are Taxes on that too.


@kamikazeken: That's like my sister lol she will cut coupons for HOURS!! and she makes over 500k a year lol and I'm broke and I dont cut coupons. Strange how things work I guess


@atd15: not talking about those taxes, I'm just talking about income taxes.
even then, the bottom 50% rarely pay property tax since they typically rent, the "lotto tax" as you call it is a voluntary tax on people who are bad at math, Student loan interest is a choice as well, and if you DO have student loan debt, I sure as hell hope you were smart enough to at least select a major where you could actually get a job. People who are "poor" shouldn'e be paying a dime in alcohol or tobacco tax, since they shouldn't have disposable income enough for those items, and your "state tax" typically only targets the wealthiest 50% just like the federal income tax. Same for "city tax" (which is a new one to me, we don't have those that I know out here). The other taxes they do pay such as Gasoline tax is reasonable since they're using the roads as well. The sales tax is the fairest tax of all, since just about everyone has to pay it.


Check this out why the USA has one of the worst healthcare systems in the "western"world.


@atd15: those "taxes" on poor people going to the ER are being paid by the top percentage as well, those who are responsible and pay their bills or have insurance.

When I was 19 and earning less than $12,000 per year, I was still smart enough to carry a high-deductible catastrophic health insurance plan that cost me around $30 per month. Anything small, I paid in full myself. Anything major like cancer, surgery, serious injury and the policy kicked in.
I see people without health insurance who have no problem blowing $200 on booze on a typical weekend night. My opinion is that if you're un-insured, and are able-bodied enough to have a job, when you go to the ER, your two options should be PAY IN FULL yourself, or go hang out in one of our new, specially designed "suffering rooms".



I've hesitated to comment on this. I want to point out that those numbers seem a bit off. Of course, that's income. People with wealth don't necessarily make income, in any taxable sense.

@snapster (of course) is in that rarified group of people, but I believe he may also be earning income in his role as manager or whatever it is of Woot Enterprises.

As an aside to our friend @kamikazeken, I find it financially sensible to not have health insurance (other than the catastrophic), and I usually get at least a 10% discount on the fees charged because I can write a check.


@kamikazeken: How do renters not pay Property Tax. Do yo think that a Landlord does not pass expenses on to the Tenant?
And The USA pays more per capita non healthcare than any other country, yet has the highest infant mortality rate, and the lowest life expectancy.
So where is that money going.
I will tell you exactly where. Drug companies that are overcharging when compared to the rest of the world, Insurance companies who are acting as "middle-men" when we don't need them, and hospitals that are run as businesses, and not places of care.


@kamikazeken: i own, not rent. i don't drink or smoke. i have no debt (student loan or other). i don't play lotto. i have insurance. i pay a significant amount in taxes.

for the record several cities/counties have tax: chicago and st.louis come to mind quickly.


@atd15: sorry, but I refuse to argue further with people who insist that black is white, and that down is in fact up.

@moosezilla: I'd move someplace where cost of living was cheaper.
I sympathize with your own situation, it sucks to be on disability, someone in my own immediate family is permanently disabled. As someone who pays a significant amount in taxes, I would think you would be one of the people the most angry with all the people who don't pay any at all.


@kamikazeken: No, you just don't want to argue with anyone that disagrees with you. That's cool.



Do you know if those numbers are earned or unearned income or both? They seem extremely low to include both, so I'm almost willing to bet that they are based only on earned income (salay, wages, tips) and do not include investment income.


@kamikazeken: Hey I'm (currently) in the bottom 50% and I definitely paid income taxes last year.


@teevoo: not according to the government's own statistics! :-P
There are always exceptions to the norm. The government's statistics show that only around 50% of Americans pay any annual income tax.

I'm curious... not counting medicare tax, social security, and state/local taxes, and AFTER YOUR REFUND, how much (approximately) did you pay in taxes on your less-than $33,000 of income? And, are you single, do you own a home, and do you have any kids?



NY City and Yonkers, NY also have local (city) income taxes.


@ohcheri: Those numbers are much lower than I had expected too. That puts Obama and tons of other politicians in this category. No wonder the Occupy Wall Street et. al movements got nowhere. You can't protest against law makers and expect them to do what you say. I found this article on wealthy members of Congress:

The sad thing is that the bottom rung of the 1% isn't extremely wealthy. If my household income (I live with my parents) was doubled it would put us safely into the 1%. We don't have any fancy cars; the newest one we have is a 12 year old Ford van. We don't have a vacation house; we still have a mortgage on a 40 year old 4 bedroom house squeeezed next to one just like it. The 5 children went/ are going to state universities and had to take out loans to do so. Do you think doubling income would make a huge difference or is the anger directed at the wrong place.

WE ARE THE 99.9%!


@baqui63 I'm sure that's just earned income but you can read the entire article here:

The anger of the occupy folks comes from a sense of entitlement, not fairness. Entitlement is the reason the housing bubble happened (everyone deserves to own a home!) Entitlement is the reason Americans have such a staggering load of credit card debt. (I want what I want and I want it now!)

In general, the poor stay poor because of choices. As mentioned above, they drink, smoke, play the lottery, have car payments but no health insurance and no savings. "Broke" means you have no money but "poor" is a lifestyle choice.

Here's a guy with no arms and no legs who became not only wealthy but has an amazing positive outlook on life. Kind of makes the excuses you hear from "poor" people seem invalid:


@jseureau: It's really not strange at all, this is exactly why the wealthy have money. They don't spend it if they don't have to.

A really good book is "The Millionaire Next Door" which basically talks about how the guy next door to you could very likely be wealthy but since he lives in a regular house and drives a 10 year old car you wouldn't know it.


The whole occupy movement strikes me as a lot of envy getting thrown around... I dunno, would someone be able to explain to me what about it isn't just jealousy or enviousness?

Yes, there are rich scumbuckets out there, but not everyone in the top earnings brackets are scum. Most of them worked very hard to be where they are...


@figgers3036: I totally agree with you there. The Occupy Movement was a complete mess the way it was carried out. The group had a mob mentality and I can guarantee that the majority of people who supported it did not have a complete understanding of the facts. A movement should have been directed at selfish CEO's who gave themselves bonuses and flew first class while their companies were suffering from record losses. Or what about all the people who true to flip real-estate with variable interest rate loans? Didn't the recession stem from the crash of the housing market- a crash that was brought about by people who couldn't pay the insane mortgage interest rates?


@atd15: I don't understand how a hospital isn't a business, especially after the USA has de facto demanded that religious institutions that used to run free hospitals have been run out as a means of enforcing the first amendment.


@gopvifootball: Flipping was an issue, and CEO overpay in a few cases is an issue, but it seems like a very wide brush. The mortgages can be traced to bad mortgage sellers, bad creditors getting loans, and bad housing evaluations.

I'd bet less than 15% of CEOs really fall into that category of golden parachute-ism.


@figgers3036: That's what I'm saying. People shouldn't be against people simply because of how much they earn. If people want to start a movement, based on facts, targeting individuals or organizations that have done something wrong or dishonest then I would back them 100%. But, like you said, the occupy movement seems to be based on jealousy.


@kamikazeken: Since you said you were curious... My gross income is ~$20k, I am single with no kids, and I rent. I paid $1150 in federal income tax. IIRC, the only time I didn't end up owing taxes was the (half) year I made $8k.


@gopvifootball: The housing crash happened because people allowed mortgage lenders to convince them they could afford a house when the facts were they really couldn't. Then every time these "suckas" had a chance they took out a HELOC and bought cars, boats and other depreciating consumer goods. It's the classic "big hat, no cattle" syndrome that keeps poor people poor.

The lenders are only half responsible, the borrowers need to take responsibility for their decisions, too.


@ohcheri: Your comments never disappoint even when they are correcting my misinformation. Thank you for your infinite wisdom. Have you ever considered starting a blog?


@gopvifootball: My blog would just be filled with information "stolen" from the true wise ones...but I can recommend some great blogs:

Each one has a different "vibe" but lots of good info and links.



Thanks for posting the source. I also believe that they are talking only about earned income.

The unfortunate problem with these statistics is that most people are not aware of the differences between earned and unearned income (after all, it's all just money you get, right?)


As for you comments about the housing crisis, I agree.


I am well within the 33% tax bracket.. so that makes me part of the 5% I guess.

Making money is nice.. Having a third of it taken back is not.


the reason capital gains are not taxed as income is because
a) corporations already pay taxes on the profits before they pay the shareholders a dividend. Then those dividends are taxed AGAIN at the 15% CAPITAL GAINS TAX paid by the shareholder.

b)The government, both Dems and GOP, feel that this is an appropriate tax level for capital gains. The "1%" don't make that rule, the people YOU elect to office did.

Please realize that a huge portion of stocks are owned by various retirement accounts/funds, most people's retirement income will depend on those capital gains to have a comfortable retirement. There are valid reasons they aren't taxed as income.

Everyone I know who is vocal about taxing the rich more so "they pay their fair share" frequently buy stuff on Amazon, specifically to avoid paying their state sales tax, but they never declare those purchases on their state tax returns and pay the "use tax" that they're supposed to pay.

Hypocritical for tax cheats to complain...


@spacezorro: "I am well within the 33% tax bracket.. so that makes me part of the 5% I guess. Making money is nice.. Having a third of it taken back is not."

For 2011, using a filing status of Head of Household), I was well into the 25% bracket. Yet my effective federal income tax rate was only 8.12% (tax paid less any refund divided by total income). Note also that I have almost no investment or other unearned income.

Even if I add up my effective income tax rates for NY City (2.4%), NY State (4.2%) and Federal (8.12%), and add the 5.65% FICA/Medicare tax to get the actual 20.37% tax I really paid, it was still no where near my marginal tax bracket of 25%.

You should check your actual numbers... (it still won't be nice, but it won't be as bad as you think).